help please from people who work in bank/building society

ragdoll

My mum has banked with Alliance & Leicester for a lot of years. She had a premier current account, a savings account and an isa. She is 79 and is getting increasingly forgetful but likes going into her branch and gets cash out over the counter probably twice a week.

On visiting mum this week I saw a welcome pack for a reward account, she didn't really understand what it was about and couldn't remember opening it but she said they had asked to have a chat about her account a few weeks ago when she was in but thought it was just to check she was happy with them as her bank.

My sister went in with Mum today to find out why it had been opened and to say that Mum would like a note put on her file saying she has asked that they don't ask her to do account reviews. They have said that they can't do this and they have a duty to inform her of new offers etc. Does anyone know if this is true and even if Mum puts in writing that she does not want to be asked to have an account review they will continue to ask.

The reward account they have got her to sign up to costs her £10 a month and her previous account was free. I can't see any benefit from the new account and strongly feel she was pushed into it. The account offers travel insurance, Mum does not go away and on reading the small print it is only for those under 65, green flag breakdown, Mum does not drive, the branch are saying Mum asked about card protection which I really do not believe as Mum didn't/doesn't know what it is. The man in the branch started saying he had four witnesses to say Mum asked about it as she had been burgled, she hasn't. I really think they have taken advantage of her and don't want it to happen again.

Sorry this has turned out so long!

stephane_2

You should complained in writing to their head office...and ask them to have it sorted the way it was before.

grizzly1911

stephane wrote: »

You should complained in writing to their head office...and ask them to have it sorted the way it was before.

Complain to Head Office - there is aclear process with all telephone numbers on the website.

The guys have got to hit their sales targets - obviously they are told to do it ethically and meet customer needs but when you fancy a new i something or other other motives kick in.

ses6jwg

Smells like a classic case of miselling at first glance but hard to say unless you were there.

In order to open or upgrade to a Reward account there is a certain process that the seller is expected to follow.

Your mother should have been informed:

1) It is a non-advised service i.e. she cannot be advised as to whether she take the account.

2) She should been informed of the limitations and exclusions with regard to the insurances.

3) She should have been informed that the account carries a £10 pcm fee.

4) She should have been given a "Key Facts" sheet

5) She should have been asked to read and sign something called a "Reward Current Account Declaration" - these have to be kept on file in the branch for 3 months. Go back to the branch and ask to see it.

If she is not happy she can make a formal complaint. If she no longer wants the Reward she can go back to a standard non-fee paying account and retain her existing numbers, card and cheque book.

ragdoll

Thanks for your thoughts and advice, I am sure she probably did sign a declaration, but I will ask to see it, but i really think it wasn't explained to her, she has been very happy with her account and would have no reason to change, the idea wouldn't even enter her head unless it was suggested to her which brings me back to why if she writes saying she does not want to be offered other products and services they won't accept that.

She looks frail and does come across a bit muddled and even one of the counter staff admited she has seen Mum go downhill over the last six months. I know the time is coming when we have to take over her finances but she enjoys getting the bus into town and going to the bank, it gives her a reason to go out and have a little chat with people and she normally goes for a coffee in a cafe where they know her. I suppose I had too much faith in having banked there for so long they would see her as a person and not just an easy target to get more business and hit their own targets.
Just wish they would let her put money in and take money out without trying to 'review her account'

grizzly1911

ragdoll wrote: »

I suppose I had too much faith in having banked there for so long they would see her as a person and not just an easy target to get more business and hit their own targets.
Just wish they would let her put money in and take money out without trying to 'review her account'

I had the same thing with my Mum. She is still on the ball but gets flustered when pressed in these situations.

We had a greed a strategy with some money she had to invest. We chose a Santander account because of the terms - straight term savings, monthly interest.

She had to pay in a cheque from elsewhere and then wait for it to clear. She was induced into having a review with an advisor and accepted. She didn't need one but is to polite to say no thanks go away. Luckily they couldn't do it on the day.

In the end I interevened, at her request and consent to get it canceled.

The best cross sell though was with the COOP who tried to flog her a Funeral Cost package, she is mid eighties. She did think on her feet for that one and retorted "that they haven't left one on top yet" - I think they got the message.

Before people start I know they can be a good idea for the right cases

pmduk

ses6jwg wrote: »

1) It is a non-advised service i.e. she cannot be advised as to whether she take the account.

Unfortunately many people, particularly the older, fail to differentiate between "advice" and sales patter. After having had a sales pitch it's a little disingenuous for bank staff to present a form disclaiming that they have given advice.

I've certainly never been given one, (possibly because I don't let them start the sales spiel).

jalexa

ragdoll wrote: »

My sister went in with Mum today to find out why it had been opened and to say that Mum would like a note put on her file saying she has asked that they don't ask her to do account reviews. They have said that they can't do this and they have a duty to inform her of new offers etc. Does anyone know if this is true

FWIW I believe that Halifax has (or had) a counter opt-out. Whether it remains the case now part of the harder driving Lloyds Banking Group I am less certain.

There is little point in pursuing a Complaint involving one person's word against another, particulary when one party has 4 witnesses (just how contemptable is that, as well as "unlikely" given typical branch staffing), however the narrow issue of whether there is (or isn't) a counter marketing opt-out would be a good issue to pursue.

opinions4u

My sister went in with Mum today to find out why it had been opened and to say that Mum would like a note put on her file saying she has asked that they don't ask her to do account reviews. They have said that they can't do this and they have a duty to inform her of new offers etc. Does anyone know if this is true and even if Mum puts in writing that she does not want to be asked to have an account review they will continue to ask.

One of the criticisms banks get is that they don't tell customers about new products and services. Another of the criticisms is that they are always trying to sell the customer something. There is a subtlety in the middle somewhere that communicates the product in a way that is less invasive. There is no legal or regulatory requirement for branch staff to inform her of new offers. There is a job requirement to sell as many products as possible that meet the customer's needs. In this case I think they've failed with the latter.

Halifax have the option of a message flashing up on the screen that says "don't market to this customer in branch". There's no requirement for them to have this. I don't know if Santander have the option or not. I suspect the Halifax one will die off in the near future as Lloyds TSB systems become the norm in Halifax branches.

The reward account they have got her to sign up to costs her £10 a month and her previous account was free. I can't see any benefit from the new account and strongly feel she was pushed into it. The account offers travel insurance, Mum does not go away and on reading the small print it is only for those under 65, green flag breakdown, Mum does not drive, the branch are saying Mum asked about card protection which I really do not believe as Mum didn't/doesn't know what it is. The man in the branch started saying he had four witnesses to say Mum asked about it as she had been burgled, she hasn't. I really think they have taken advantage of her and don't want it to happen again.

Why would there be four witnesseses who recall such a conversation? That strikes me as slightly odd. Having managed a bank branch with 3,000 customers a week coming through the door I can honestly say that most of the stuff overheard got filed in my brain's junk folder never to materialise again. Another issue is around how many staff does the branch have hanging around listening in to little old ladies chatting away to other staff? My memories of branch work are never having enough bodies to do everything I wanted to do. It just makes me think there's something of a pack mentality in that branch to protect each other's sales. I might be wrong - it's a view formed from very little information. But it doesn't look good.

As for card protection cover, if the "non-advised" seller feels that charging the customer £120 a year for it as part of the packaged product, that doesn't look good to me. No idea if Santander sell it as a stand alone product. If they do, this looks like it would have been a better outcome. I worked in bank/building society branches for 20 years. I can't ever remember a customer asking me for card protection cover. I can remember disucssing the product with customers and securing the sale.

Ask for a refund of all premiums paid and some compensation for time wasted cleaning up the mess. While it may take time, be prepared to go to the FOS on this - they'll cave in before it gets there. My view is they've stitiched her up like a kipper.

jalexa wrote: »

There is little point in pursuing a Complaint involving one person's word against another, particulary when one party has 4 witnesses (just how contemptable is that, as well as "unlikely" given typical branch staffing), however the narrow issue of whether there is (or isn't) a counter marketing opt-out would be a good issue to pursue.

In this sort of case I completely disagree. The sale is recent. Sales standards are more closely regulated than they ever have been. Informing the customer of the features, benefits and exclusions of the insurances on offer is part of the sales process.

Here's a link to the account. I'm struggling to see how it really benefits a typical 79 year old. There can be cases where it does, but this doesn't stack up. If it's pursued all the way to the FOS the FOS wil back the customer.

jalexa

opinions4u wrote: »

In this sort of case I completely disagree. The sale is recent. Sales standards are more closely regulated than they ever have been. Informing the customer of the features, benefits and exclusions of the insurances on offer is part of the sales process.

BTW I don't disagree with that. My suggestion was more to do with the "tactics" of keeping a complaint narrowly focussed. I would be quite happy with a "mis-selling" Complaint based (narrowly) on the appropriateness of the product sold (in all the circumstances).

My thinking behind my original suggestion is that it would "smoke-out" Santander policy on the issue, whether that "policy" is explicit opt-out or "appropriateness" of advice. We both realise from the absurd "4 witnesses" claim that something is going on with a particular adviser in a particular branch. Unfortunately for the customer (complaint) a "denial" is the obvious "defence" to that allegation.

Returning to the previous account is "gimme", but for the particular customer clarity on counter opt-out policy would restore confidence going forward.

grizzly1911

ses6jwg wrote: »

Smells like a classic case of miselling at first glance but hard to say unless you were there.


5) She should have been asked to read and sign something called a "Reward Current Account Declaration" - these have to be kept on file in the branch for 3 months. Go back to the branch and ask to see it.

I agree with your summary first paragraph. However I would say that if I were reviewing the case as a complaint handler my view would be that an elderly, widow would be a vulnerable target and should have the benefit of the doubt.

I agree with the "Declaration and Benfits/Exclusion" sign up the trouble is these are often rushed through and flashed in front of the recipient. It is often "sign by the X".

The last one I had went through a printer where the toner was fading and was barely legible with good eyesight.

Certainly some older people I know would sign something just to get out of the door and that despite how much you tell them they don't always listen/understand. Not all, I admit, but a lot yes.