Can my ex relocate our kids to France from the UK?

Chained

Hello.

I am divorced with two children ages 4 and 7. We are all UK citizens.
For the last few months I was forced to relocate to Norway due to work related obligations but I have been travelling back to the UK once a month to visit my kids for 3-4 days at a time.

Recently, my ex wife met someone from France and has announced that she will be taking the kids and move to France by the end of the year. Although we have good relations, she made subtly clear that the visiting situation will change. I am very worried that I will not be able to see my kids as much as I would like to.

Hello and thank you for your answer.

No, there is no court order determining my visitation schedule.
Due to the fact that our divorce was amicable, we decided to work things out between us.
Having said that, I have been visiting the children each and every month for periods of time, they have also come and visited here in twice for two weeks at a time, both times accompanied by their mother. I have paid all their expenses and hers, too.

I do not know how to proceed with this...

Can I stop her?

If I cannot stop her what should I do to secure my visitation rights as a father?

clearingout

If forget the legal term but it's something like 'leave to remove' from the jurisdiction. She needs your permission to move your children to another country. If you don't need that permission, she'll need to take you to court for 'leave to remove' (or something like that!). The courts will look at both sides - from her point of view, she will need to show that a move, on balance, would be in the best interests of the children and she would also need to show that the move isn't about frustrating contact with you. Her relationship will be looked at - so if it's new and she's trying to move within a few months of being with this man, you would hope a judge would seriously question just how serious it is and how long it might last. She would also need to show proper schooling arrangements had been made, that there was somewhere to live, that she could support herself (with the help of the new partner), had good job prospects etc.

If you think she will move without your permission and without going to court, you need to apply as soon as possible for a Prohibitive Steps Order which will stop her moving until a court has had the opportunity to look at the situation in more depth. Do you have something in writing from her, or a text message, or voicemail that 'proves' she intends to move? This would probably be useful.

Has she outlined her plans for contact with you? Is it not possible for you just to go to France on the same schedule as you have now?

Of course, I have written all of the above without really knowing what your own absence from the country will do to the situation. You are not really sharing the care of the children with her, she is having to manage alone which isn't easy. It is not unreasonable she 'moves on' and within that, that she should be allowed to live abroad if you're allowed to live abroad?

Chained

Thank you for your reply.

You have some valid points here, yes.
Of course I have nothing against her moving on and my issues have nothing to do with this. My reaction is to the fact that during the current circumstances I think that such a relocation will prove disruptive to our children and to my visitation opportunities.

She has no job, her new (few months') partner is going through a very difficult divorce and has his own three kids to provide for on a low teacher's salary and the house that she is now living in the UK has still my name on the mortgage, as the bank refused to remove it since she has no income.

I do not want to change the way we communicate currently by seeming aggressive and contacting a lawyer but at the same time I do want to know what my legal options are.

princessdreamer

TBH I think she will argue that you were free to leave the country and it is unfair that you expect her to stay. As long as she has a stable envoironment for the children and can provide then she should be able to go.

puddy

why would the visiting situation change just because she has moved to france?

it seems as if the move to france is not the concern here, it is the change in contact. you already live in a different country to your children, that wont change, but why is the contact going to change?

Chained

Thank you for all your replies.

My fears are that the contact will change due to some hints I already got regarding me visiting the kids on their birthdays and Christmas holidays. This is where my fears stem from.

While planning my visit to the kids birthdays she mentioned that it will be "inconvenient" for them to see me as there is no place for me to stay there, their grandparents will be visiting and that she already has plans with her new boyfriend. The same tone continued while talking about Christmas holidays.

I am not considering anything as fair or unfair, just that the kids should be able to see me whenever they have the chance (due to school). Frankly, the new situation would not feel threatening to me if i did not feel that my kids would suffer due to her new relationship status.

puddy

so why cant you rent a small apartment for a week at a time at christmas and holidays? it will cost you obviously but you cant have them living with you in a travelodge room

at other times of the year you could simply stay over at theres if there arent others staying (family would only stay at xmas not once a month surely)

you need to get the contact sorted before she goes though so i would speak to her first and if no joy you will have to apply for a contact order

RAS

Write out exactly what your previous (prior to Norway) and current visiting arrangments are, detailing the number of days and contact on special events.

Write to your ex and tell that you are not happy with her proposal to move to France because of the disruption to the children. Also tell her that if this were to go ahead, you expect the same level of contact generally and on special days.

The children are now old enough to visit you either in England of Norway as long as they are chaperoned on the journeys.

You may not want to seem agressive but you do need to see a very good lawyer when you are next in England. Even if you manage not to use them and make arrangments amicalbly, you need to be able to ring them or e-mail them and get them to take action on your behalf in the courts at a few days' notice if she tries to remove them without your consent.

What also worries me is the amiable mess you have left yourself in with the house.

Presumably she is now going to leave this, stop paying the mortgage and disappear, leaving you to pick up the mess? What plans have you if this happens?

FBaby

I think you need to speak to your ex, explained that you don't have an issue per se. in regards to her moving to France, however, you expect to continue to see your kids with the same frequency than before. If this doesn't happen, you will go to court. The good thing about a move to France is that French judges are more stricter than England in regards to contact. Almost all separated/divorced couples in France go before a 'juge aux affaires familiales' to have an official order and maintenance payment agreed. The system works much better there, doesn't cost a fortune, much quicker and it is official.

Alternatively, you can threaten her to take her to court in England, but if she is clever, it is likely a judge would support her move. She would need to show that 1- she can support herself and your kids there, so show evidence that she will be looking for a job (better than her new boyfriend saying he would support her), 2- that she has thought arrangement for them to continue to see you as before.

rachbc

do you want her to stay in the Uk or do you want to secure visiting in France its not clear? As you are already in another country to your kids I can't see how you can really argue that they should have to stay in the UK - you could stay in a hotel/ rent somewhere when you visit them or fly them to you either as unaccomplanied minors or with their mother

Chained

rachbc wrote: »

do you want her to stay in the Uk or do you want to secure visiting in France its not clear? As you are already in another country to your kids I can't see how you can really argue that they should have to stay in the UK - you could stay in a hotel/ rent somewhere when you visit them or fly them to you either as unaccomplanied minors or with their mother

I do not mind her moving to France as long as my visitations are not interrupted.

As i said earlier, I was given the impression that after their move things are likely to change as her priorities, considering her new boyfriend, will also change.

My fear is that I might be prohibited, one way or another, to see my children on a regular basis, if this seems to interfere with her own plans.