Legal Advice - daughter cheats mother out of home in France

Mojisola

Aren't there some legal bods on MSE? When you look at this - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/contents - it looks possible that the daughter could be guilty of:

(a)section 2 (fraud by false representation),

(b)section 3 (fraud by failing to disclose information), and

(c)section 4 (fraud by abuse of position).

puddy

July1962 wrote: »

Re: deprivation of assets
I found this site http://www.carefeesadvice.com/deprivation-of-assets.html which states "... it would be unreasonable for the local authority to consider deprivation if the gift were made when you were fit and healthy and had no expectation that care would be required."
The lady was of sound mind and believed that her bad daughter would care for her in her later years in the house in France.
Mother is UK citizen and her home was sold in UK, but it doesn't seem that there's much anyone can do as she was deemed to be 'of sound mind' at the time (albeit, the victim of a con).

for care, yes, but not for benefits and it sounds like she would need to claim

also, if she dies within 7 years of the gift, there is inheritence tax to pay by the bad sister

ceridwen

Suicide attempt:eek:

Megawd - I hadnt realised that Bad Sister had had THAT bad an effect on things...

Oh dear...that poor mother. Its bad enough to realise that someone/anyone could be that "evil" - but when its ones own daughter - oh heck:eek: Its understandable why someone could feel so desperate/upset/angry that they would do this in those circumstances.

Very sorry to hear that Bad Sister has driven Mother to that extreme with her actions ((( )))

Mygawd - that daughter of her qualifies as Worlds Biggest !!!!! to act like this.

I DO hope this will all work out well for Mother and Other Sister in the event.

toshkininny

I think the mum need to act, and act now - sooner rather than later.

Citizens Advice Bureau maybe a cheap good start, and maybe they would recommend a lawyer that could help (cheaply)

meritaten

The definition of Theft is to 'intentionally deprive a person of their property', so this daughter intended to deprive her mother of her property and I definately think the Fraud Squad should investigate! it may complicate matters a bit that the money has ended up in France - but the crime was committed HERE - in the UK.
you say your sis is a lawyer? is she still employed here? Does her firm KNOW what she has done? Does the Law Society? may be petty - but I would be letting them know too - but only if you are making a complaint to the police - otherwise it will be ignored.

meritaten

Kay_Peel wrote: »

There are two reasons why the police cannot help the unfortunate lady:

(1) Jurisdiction.
They can't investigate a crime that was committed in France (if it was committed in France). You would have to know at what point the daughter decided to renege on her promise to live with her mother. Was it after an argument with her mother on the doorstep of the house in France? Seems likely.

(2) The proceeds of sale were intended for the purchase of a house in her daughter's name - and that's precisely what has happened. There is now a house in France in her daughter's name. The daughter hasn't run off with the money and disappeared, or spent it on some extravagance - she's stuck to the plan. Where's the fraud?

The fact that there has been a disagreement over the living arrangements and a renege on a promise is not a crime. The police would probably advise her to go back to the solicitor that did the conveyance.

Kay - you are wrong hun, Fraud is Theft under False Promises! Fraud is a complex crime and you COULD say that if people didnt believe conmen and conwomen it wouldnt happen!
The reason the Fraud squad exists is because Theft isnt limited to burglary and muggings and overt taking of money and belongings! its to catch people like this bad daughter who take advantage of others greed or vulnerability.
the fact that the proceeds have ended up in France doesnt mean its out of the UK police jurisdiction - the fraud STARTED here in the UK. and its not as if the police here wouldnt work with the French police is it?
The daughter made false promises to the mother - there is a definate money trail - the mother had her belongings shipped over which implies a belief which was that the mother would be living there.
I think its a case of Fraud - cloudy yes, but, the mother has clearly lost money. and personally, I would be pressing hard on the Fraud aspect.

mountainofdebt

I understand why the mum may not want the son to inherit anything but why would french law be relevant?

madelaine

How sad. sorry to read this it must be so devastating to the Mum, how could your own child do this to you, please get this lady some good advise, first stop would be cab, hope you can help this lady.

Savvy_Sue

mountainofdebt wrote: »

I understand why the mum may not want the son to inherit anything but why would french law be relevant?

Because the French law on inheritance of property means that if you have a house or land, you HAVE to leave it equally (I believe) to all of your children. And then if they want to sell it, they all have to agree.

So, Wicked Daughter says "if we own the house jointly, when you die my sister and my brother will both inherit your share." Mother says "Oh, I don't want that to happen, isn't there a way round it?" WD says "Yes, if I own the house in my sole name then that won't be a problem."

Voila!

puddy

Unlike the UK, you do not have complete freedom in terms of whom you leave your French property and other assets to. French inheritance law specifies that your relatives have rights to a certain proportion of your estate. The proportion that is due to your legal relatives is known as the Reserve Legale, while the proportion that you can freely give away is known as the Quotit Disponible.

To illustrate this, consider the case where you are survived by one child. This child would be entitled to half your estate. If you had two children they would be entitled to one-third each; with three children they would be entitled to one-quarter each. If you have no children that survive you, other members of your family (e.g. surviving parents) may qualify as legal heirs and therefore are entitle to a share of your estate. This is based on the French legal principle that property should be preserved within the bloodline.

A husband or wife is not a legal heir and therefore has no legal entitlement to a share of your estate.

http://www.france-property-and-information.com/inheritance_tax.htm