underpinned house - buy or not?

tulipz

As some of you know, we've been trying to buy a house. Our first home. We put our offers in for a nice property and we are close to having it agreed.

Now, the estate agent tells us TODAY that the property was underpinned in 1980ish... but no structural problems since...and that the vendor has insurance (wonder how much premium!)

What should we be doing in this case? It was on for £330k, our offers of 305,310 were rejected. We offered 320, it'll perhaps be accepted (if not there is nothing we can do, thats the max we can borrow).....

Will this underpinning thing create problems for me later on?Is it a problem at all?

What would you do if you were in my place? Walk away / Reduce the offer (please note that our prev offers were rejected) or just go forward???

Inputs much appreciated!

Tulipz

shegar

I personally wouldnt touch it, id look else where , the history of the place would always worry me,also dont know if a mortgage company would entertain it , but then im not a structural engineer...........

Scully38

tulipz wrote: »

As some of you know, we've been trying to buy a house. Our first home. We put our offers in for a nice property and we are close to having it agreed.

Now, the estate agent tells us TODAY that the property was underpinned in 1980ish... but no structural problems since...and that the vendor has insurance (wonder how much premium!)

What should we be doing in this case? It was on for £330k, our offers of 305,310 were rejected. We offered 320, it'll perhaps be accepted (if not there is nothing we can do, thats the max we can borrow).....

Will this underpinning thing create problems for me later on?Is it a problem at all?

What would you do if you were in my place? Walk away / Reduce the offer (please note that our prev offers were rejected) or just go forward???

Inputs much appreciated!

Tulipz

First you'll need to get a structual survey to determine if the house is still subsiding. Also you'll want to see the original documents from when the underpinning was done, don't just rely on the sellers say so. If the owner has insurance, and no subsidence has been detected since the underpinning then it should be ok, but you must get all the certificates and details of how and when the underpinning was done, what work was carried out and arrange for a full structual survey before you go any further. Just because it's underpinned doesn't necessarily mean it will subside again, as it depends on what caused it the first time, and if that has been remedied. If the cause of the subsidence hasn't been fixed then chances are it will happen again and your insurance may not pay for it. So you really need all the evidence before you make a decision, and if going for a full structual survey, tell the surveyor about previous subsidence. But to get a mortgage on the property you have to have all the paperwork and certificates as well as insurance details. DON'T ACCEPT JUST THE WORD OF THE SELLERS.

tulipz

Scully38 wrote: »

First you'll need to get a structual survey to determine if the house is still subsiding. Also you'll want to see the original documents from when the underpinning was done, don't just rely on the sellers say so. If the owner has insurance, and no subsidence has been detected since the underpinning then it should be ok, but you must get all the certificates and details of how and when the underpinning was done, what work was carried out and arrange for a full structual survey before you go any further. Just because it's underpinned doesn't necessarily mean it will subside again, as it depends on what caused it the first time, and if that has been remedied. If the cause of the subsidence hasn't been fixed then chances are it will happen again and your insurance may not pay for it. So you really need all the evidence before you make a decision, and if going for a full structual survey, tell the surveyor about previous subsidence. But to get a mortgage on the property you have to have all the paperwork and certificates as well as insurance details. DON'T ACCEPT JUST THE WORD OF THE SELLERS.

Thank you. I'll get everything verified. Do you think I should stay away from this property even if everything is okay as of now? just from a market value perspective?

Scully38

tulipz wrote: »

Thank you. I'll get everything verified. Do you think I should stay away from this property even if everything is okay as of now? just from a market value perspective?

Find out if there is a guarantee on the work that was done and get copies of all documents if some are missing the sellers will need to pay for another copy to give you. Also you'll need to find out if the insurers are willing to maintain the insurance on the property after the sale and get that in writing, or you could find out after you buy the property that no one will insure you because of prior damaged. As for market value, again this depends on what is found on the survey and if the original problem was identified and rectified. If it was, then there's no reason why market value can't be achieved, but and its a biggie, all documents, certificates and the cause of the subsidence has to have been rectified. If its never been identified and just fixed it will likely cause more problems in the future. So as for full market value, it has a lot of 'if ands and buts'. If you're prepared to go through all of that, then its a personal decisions as to fair market value. But you need to make sure your mortgage will allow it. If the cause isn't found then it may make the house not insurable. Usually its the fear of the house subsiding again makes it less attractive and saleable at full market value.

shar46y

tulipz wrote: »

Thank you. I'll get everything verified. Do you think I should stay away from this property even if everything is okay as of now? just from a market value perspective?

Lots of good advice already.

Couple of thoughts about market value - it partly depends on the area, for example certain otherwise desirable parts of London are built on clay and I have been told (by friends who live around there) so many houses have experienced historical movement that it hardly raises an eyebrow. Obviously all other things being equal, one would prefer a house that had never experienced subsidence - the very word will make it harder to sell.

ruggedtoast

It may well be perfectly sound. But you will have to expend more money and effort establishing that now than you otherwise would in terms of engineers reports.

After this insurance will be harder to obtain and more expensive, and the house will always be less attractive to future buyers.

It's better to start as you mean to go on with houses, and for most people that doesn't include underpinning, but if you get a decent discount it may be worth it.

When I was in that situation I decided I didn't need the future worry and problems selling in the future, especially as I knew the sellers had already been unreasonable over negotiating so would not entertain the sort of drop I would have needed. So we walked away. It felt like the end of the world and we incurred financial losses doing so but found a much better place for us later on.

In hindsight I am glad that place fell through. It felt wrong and it would have been wrong.

But many people buy underpinned places and are happy in their homes.

Trust your instincts, that's why we have them!

tulipz

Thanks for the inputs everyone. I have some more detail to this now. The entire property was not underpinned. They had some extension work done and this underpinning thing was due to a tree or something and it only effected the extended part. Not sure if that makes any difference...would most of you still stay away from this property?

iheartbristol

We were concerned that the extension at the back of the house we are buying might have been underpinned (just the extension). Turns out it wasn't but OH's uncle who's a surveyor told us not to touch it with a bargepole if it had been, as did every other member of our extended family when we asked their advice.

ruggedtoast

There's no right or wrong answer. If you want the house you'll have to stump up for a full structural survey and probably engineers reports as well to get insurance and possibly for your mortgage. You need to be prepared to walk away if these dont say what they should.

Regardless of how peripheral the movement may have been you will never be able to get a normal insurance policy again. The benefit of buying the house may outweigh the cost, or it may not. Only you can decide; all this will put some buyers off when you want to sell.

KiKi

I think it depends how much you like the house. I wouldn't touch an underpinned house with a bargepole - unless I was completely head over heels in love with it. If it was 'just a house', I'd walk away.

They've refused lower offers (knowing the structural concerns), you will have to get surveys, professional advice, and will always be on the back foot with insurance policies. It will make it harder to sell on.

Unless I loved this place, I'd be walking away. JMO, though; you're the one buying!

KiKi