Do insulated radiator panels save money? - I'm testing them now

Fellwalker

Robert2009 wrote: »

But what of the OP who was going to tell us how much money he saved?

Ever notice that the posters who come on here with weird energy saving ideas that are going to save a fortune never come back and tells us how much they saved.

Cynical me?

I've sent a PM to the OP. Maybe he/she still exists?

shivvers

I've read through this thread a couple of times and I'm confused. Do I want the foil side closest to the rad...or to the wall?

Also, how much space should be between the rad and the foil? Is 1" enough?

BTW, thanks for all the great info here. I live in Canada and it gets darn cold where I am in the winter!

grahamc2003

david_mclean wrote: »

Just bought a set of Heatkeeper Panels from Green and Easy, which arrived a couple of days ago. They're extremely easy to fit (double-sided tape is included) and apparently Heatkeeper updated the design for this year, so hopefully the energy saving should be even greater than previously. They seem to have made a difference already to the temperature of the room, so I'll be very interested to how my next heating bill compares.

Green and Easy seem to offer the Heatkeepers at the best price and they were extremely helpful over the phone, so definitely recommended all round.

As the links supplied earlier show, putting foil behind the rads lowers the heat output - so, all other things being equal, you would have a cooler room, not a warmer one as I think you imply.

But we are talking about very minor changes and savings here, and there will be other factors which drown out the effect of these reflectors. (Hence why you perceive they are making the room warmer, when they do the opposite). If you want more heat output from your rads, you just need to foget about the reflectors and paint the wall black behind the rads (but be clear, although the heat output will increase, more fuel will be burnt).

I put home made reflecters (baco foil over cardboard) when I installed several new storage heaters 20 years ago. They probably save me a few pound every year (by decreasing the heat loss through a very small area of the walls), but then again they only cost pennies to make. I certainly wouldn't shell out £20 or £30 per rad for pre-made ones - probably never get that money back in fuel savings.

t0rt0ise

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I put home made reflecters (baco foil over cardboard) when I installed several new storage heaters 20 years ago. They probably save me a few pound every year (by decreasing the heat loss through a very small area of the walls), but then again they only cost pennies to make. I certainly wouldn't shell out £20 or £30 per rad for pre-made ones - probably never get that money back in fuel savings.

Nobody would pay £20 per rad.. it's £20 per house. I have solid walls.. house built round about 1824 so I think I may give it a go.

Graham_Page_2

I have to declare an interest in this debate as my company (Joulesave) makes the Heatkeeper panels. The average-sized radiator needs 2 - 2.5 panels, so an average house probably needs 15-20 which should cost about £40- £50.

We believe that our panels are much easier to fit than foil sheets because they have some rigidity. There's an instructional video on our website.

Test results average a 20% saving but vary a lot because there are so many variables (type of wall especially), but a safe expectation should be a 10% saving, so payback is quick. Our website includes a lot of customer feedback, most of it very favourable, see the Joulesave website.

Hope this helps!

Cardew

Graham_Page wrote: »

Test results average a 20% saving but vary a lot because there are so many variables (type of wall especially), but a safe expectation should be a 10% saving, so payback is quick. !

Leaving out the spam!

20% of what? 10% of what?

I know of no scientific tests carried out by any recognised body that shows they have any effect on saving heating costs whatsoever? not even 1%

I have checked with the Energy Saving Trust(again today) who are not aware of any savings to be made.

If putting some panels behind a radiator behind a radiator saved 20% or 10%(of what?) for about 2% of the surface area of the room, then what if the whole room was lined?

Ever heard of heat soak.

Don't come on this site to peddle your wares with such complete and utter nonsense!!!

Graham_Page_2

Leaving out your unnecessary rudeness I'll try to answer your questions.

Most of the savings in the many independent tests carried out on similar panels express savings in KWh/sq m/year. Any percentage saving quoted is therefore usually derived from dividing the saving by the estimated total KWh used for heating. You may have overlooked what I said about the large number of variables facing any tester - these figures are indicative only.

If you aren't too fastidious to look at our website you will see that we are Ofgem approved under the CERT scheme and that other tests have been carried out by Queen's University Belfast, BSRIA, UKAEA among many others.

You are right about the Energy Savings Trust who have not looked at radiator panels yet. I can't speak for them but you might want to ask again in a few months' time.

You are also quite right to say that maximum saving would probably be achieved by lining the walls of a room with panels, but most people would not choose that form of decoration and the best place to put them is behind the radiator. We haven't tested your suggestion.

I'm sorry if you think that suppliers should not post here. I made my position clear in my first sentence and I would like to think that I have provided some helpful information. If you don't like it - scroll down!

grahamc2003

Graham_Page wrote: »

Most of the savings in the many independent tests carried out on similar panels express savings in KWh/sq m/year. Any percentage saving quoted is therefore usually derived from dividing the saving by the estimated total KWh used for heating. You may have overlooked what I said about the large number of variables facing any tester - these figures are indicative only.

!

Are you therefor saying the 20% saving you quoted are cost savings? (i.e. if you currently spend £1000 on heating, these panels will save £200)?

Any independent test of any worth would control all the variables, and report the savings made in those controlled conditions. That's the idea of such tests. It's simply nonsense to say something like 'you'll make 20% savings, but those figures don't mean anything because of other variables'.

I take both your posts as misleading. It is theoretically impossible to make anything but a very minor saving on heating costs with these reflectors - and certainly nothing like 20%. Even then, an element of the small saving will come about by a lower room temperature profile.

Graham_Page_2

Thanks for your comments. I certainly didn't intend to mislead, quite the opposite.

The essential difficulty is that giving what most people want, i.e. a simple answer (even with caveats), opens one up to others who want to debate the detail.

Where I do disagree with you is over 'Any independent test of any worth would control all the variables'. All the tests that I have seen have simulated a variety of conditions, but the number of variables, even in wall constructions is just too great, and the tests (which we usually pay for) are very expensive. Then, what do you measure? Many tests just assess the reduction in heat loss through the wall, but there is also a benefit from the water in the system being returned hotter to the boiler and so requiring less reheating.

And unlike you I don't see that 'a lower room temperature profile' is irrelevant, if by that you mean that the overall effect of the panels is to make the room warmer which is what most of our customers report.

I'm being sucked into a supplier v enthusiast debate, which was not my intention. I'm sorry if you don't like my comments, I'll post no more.

grahamc2003

Graham_Page wrote: »

And unlike you I don't see that 'a lower room temperature profile' is irrelevant, if by that you mean that the overall effect of the panels is to make the room warmer which is what most of our customers report.

I'm being sucked into a supplier v enthusiast debate, which was not my intention. I'm sorry if you don't like my comments, I'll post no more.

Oh come on, these boards are for presenting all opinions, no need to stop posting just because someone(or two) disagree with you. I'm absolutely certain 95% of people reading this want to believe your version of efficacy. (BTW I think you are genuine in your beliefs and not trying to mislead anyone, just that I think your beliefs are misplaced and your misleading unintentional).

As I said, I have put these reflectors (home made ones, made for a couple of quid) behind my rads, and I probably save (literally) 3 or 4 quid a year because of them.

Regarding the temp profile of the room - no, reflective panels do not make the room warmer, they make it cooler. This was explained in a technical report early on in this thread. Try to think of the reflectors as reflecting back the heat being radiated backwards - that is the radiant equivalent of partially covering the radiators with a thick blanket in that the heat is prevented in part in being released into the room. So, in effect, it makes the radiator a (slightly) lower power. (The report also described the opposite effect, effectively making the radiators a higher power by simply painting the wall black behind the rad, which also, incidentally, lowers bills a little).

I'm sure many people report a warmer room when these things are fitted - but that is the opposite of what the science says, and it is more the expectation rather than the fact. Bearing in mind, the effects of these things are tiny, so difficult to judge their effect at all in a home environment.