Comments on our new kitchen layout please...

phill99

You may atruggle to get a 1.5 bowl sink in a 600mm unit without cutting into the carcass. No matter what the sink manufacturers tell you, they never fit properly.

spideyboy

Fabulous sketch and 3D images. The void in the back of the breakfast bar could be utilised for cookery books and the like. Saw the same in recent trawl of Redrow show homes and looked quite good...

Ben84

I like the breakfast bar, it gives people somewhere to sit and talk to whoever is cooking.

I'm not sure I like the microwave though, it's in the corner where it's hard to get to.

I like how there's a decent amount of space on both sides of the hob, that's useful, but I don't like how there's very little counter space near the ovens as you'll be running around with hot trays of things looking for somewhere to put them. Having the oven next to the fridge is not great practice either, it will heat up the fridge a bit.

I can see why you might want all the tall things on one wall, but an under counter fridge and freezer would put them both within easy reach of the main food preparation surfaces and not put anything tall in the middle of your large counter the other side of the kitchen. A double oven would also give you the same amount of oven space with less width consumed, so between these two changes you'd hopefully have more counter space around the oven, the microwave easier to get to and the fridge/freezer in a more useful place too?

Meepster

phill99 wrote: »

You may atruggle to get a 1.5 bowl sink in a 600mm unit without cutting into the carcass. No matter what the sink manufacturers tell you, they never fit properly.

Franke ARX160 1.5 s/steel undermount sink fits perfectly into a 600mm cabinet, I've had 7 kitchens installed with that combination this year...

Meepster

Ben84 wrote: »

Having the oven next to the fridge is not great practice either, it will heat up the fridge a bit.

No it wont. The amount of heat given out through the sides of an oven is minimal. If anything the sides of the fridge freezer will be hotter than the oven...

I can see why you might want all the tall things on one wall, but an under counter fridge and freezer would put them both within easy reach of the main food preparation surfaces and not put anything tall in the middle of your large counter the other side of the kitchen.

This would also mean a MASSIVE drop in storage capacity. The Liehberr CNES5113 model the OP has quoted gives a gross capacity of 358L for the fridge and 141L for the freezer. If you went for undercounter versions, the maximum capacity of the fridge would be around 150L and a frost-free freezer around 95L.

A double oven would also give you the same amount of oven space with less width consumed,

Eh? How do you figure that out? A double oven will give you around 102L of capacity, whereas two single ovens will give you 134L. Also, the advantage of having two singles would be that you can get self-cleaning versions, or even steam ovens, which isn't something you can do with a double.

so between these two changes you'd hopefully have more counter space around the oven, the microwave easier to get to and the fridge/freezer in a more useful place too?

The microwave is easy to get to, it would be at shoulder height. It's also close to the ovens and partially hidden from the rest of the kitchen. Win win if you ask me...

I think that about sums up my opinions...

madcow2006

Thanks again for the extra comments. Our thoughts thus far are;

• The breakfast bar was proposed that way for a few reasons; to maximise the units & worktop in the hob run of units, to keep a breakfast bar as well as the table as we have found it very useful & sociable over the years, mrs madcow wanted the curved ended base units & I agree it softens thelook, the open end of the breakfast bar that protrudes around the corner into the family room was to do a few things; continue the curved worktop theme, extend the worktop albeit very slightly round into the family room from the kitchen, & at this corner we have power, TV & phone sockets so they will probably be utilised in the new layout.
• I like the idea of using the rear of the breakfast bar for storage if we don’t use a corner cupboard. Great suggestion.
• I’m also not sure about the microwave wall unit or the look of the fridge breaking up the run of tall units. Maybe we should go for a built in tall larder fridge & lose the freezer to the utility.
• How about having a 3rd tall appliance unit between the two ovens & house the microwave, possibly with a warming drawer below.
• I agree with the worktop adjacent to the oven & would like to increase the worktop on that side if possible.
• Our designer originally had a wall unit on both sides of the extractor hood, but I did not show them as I wanted to go for a clean uncluttered look. Now I’m thinking the extractor wall looks a bit stark. How about some wall units up there?
• We were going to go for a 100mm up stand at the rear of the worktop & a splash back behind the hob, so that will help with that wall also.
• The tall units we are thinking of are 2297mm high. So virtually floor to ceiling.
• I think the built in ovens should be moved up into the next section of the housing, they look a bit low slung.
• We think we now like the dresser on the * wall & can see the benefit of more space around the table.
• It is a Franke Ariane under mounted sink that supplier has mentioned. Will this fit the 600 base unit?
• On the dresser, how about having the wall units be wall mounted & not coming all the way down to the granite worktop. Therefore losing the drawers & maximising the worktop area & exposing the lovely granite.
• Regarding the size of the table we are not planning to replace it. It sits six people comfortably & all the chairs tuck in so they hardly protrude when not in use, so maximising passing space.

Any more thoughts on our suggestions above?

Thanks again Madcow

Meepster

madcow2006 wrote: »

Thanks again for the extra comments. Our thoughts thus far are;

• The breakfast bar was proposed that way for a few reasons; to maximise the units & worktop in the hob run of units, to keep a breakfast bar as well as the table as we have found it very useful & sociable over the years, mrs madcow wanted the curved ended base units & I agree it softens thelook, the open end of the breakfast bar that protrudes around the corner into the family room was to do a few things; continue the curved worktop theme, extend the worktop albeit very slightly round into the family room from the kitchen, & at this corner we have power, TV & phone sockets so they will probably be utilised in the new layout.

Seems fine to me

• I like the idea of using the rear of the breakfast bar for storage if we don’t use a corner cupboard. Great suggestion.

A corner unit would give you much better storage though, especially if you went for a Magic Corner or Le Mans corner solution

• I’m also not sure about the microwave wall unit or the look of the fridge breaking up the run of tall units. Maybe we should go for a built in tall larder fridge & lose the freezer to the utility.
• How about having a 3rd tall appliance unit between the two ovens & house the microwave, possibly with a warming drawer below.

Combining these two comment: You'd have to lose the larder unit on the end if you wanted to throw in an extra oven housing, although the microwave and waming drawer idea would work better than having the microwave in a wall unit

• I agree with the worktop adjacent to the oven & would like to increase the worktop on that side if possible.

See the above comment, you're going to have to compromise on something

• Our designer originally had a wall unit on both sides of the extractor hood, but I did not show them as I wanted to go for a clean uncluttered look. Now I’m thinking the extractor wall looks a bit stark. How about some wall units up there?

I was thinking that when I was putting it into the plan, seems a little lost, could do with one or two units either side, maybe just decorative units

• We were going to go for a 100mm up stand at the rear of the worktop & a splash back behind the hob, so that will help with that wall also.

If anything, it will make the hood look even more lost

• The tall units we are thinking of are 2297mm high. So virtually floor to ceiling.

Is that including the cornice?

• I think the built in ovens should be moved up into the next section of the housing, they look a bit low slung.

The configuration of the oven housing varies from supplier to supplier, so it all depends on what they use

• We think we now like the dresser on the * wall & can see the benefit of more space around the table.

Agree with you 100%

• It is a Franke Ariane under mounted sink that supplier has mentioned. Will this fit the 600 base unit?

Yes, the ARX160 I mentioned above is the Ariane

• On the dresser, how about having the wall units be wall mounted & not coming all the way down to the granite worktop. Therefore losing the drawers & maximising the worktop area & exposing the lovely granite.

You could do, but then it isn't really a dresser, more of a feature section of units

• Regarding the size of the table we are not planning to replace it. It sits six people comfortably & all the chairs tuck in so they hardly protrude when not in use, so maximising passing space.

Again, I agree, the table size you have mentioned is slightly larger than a normal 6 seater

Any more thoughts on our suggestions above?

Thanks again Madcow

Phew!!! I hope that all makes sense...

madcow2006

Thanks Meepster.
The magic corner/le mans would be great if funds allow, so we are keeping that on the back burner.
Decision, descisions about that bank of tall units....quite like the idea of mounting the microwave between the two ovens & agree that it looks like we will have to compromise on something as you have said.
I think 1 wall storage unit either side of the extractor will balance that wall up a bit.
I thought the splashback under the extractor would beef up that wall, but you say it would make it more lost. Can you please explain?
We were thinking of units without any pelmet or cornice for an uncluttered look, so the 2297mm unit height is the bare unit.

Cheers Madcow :beer:

Meepster

madcow2006 wrote: »

Thanks Meepster.
The magic corner/le mans would be great if funds allow, so we are keeping that on the back burner.
For the £350 or so that a Le Mans costs, it should be on the front burner, on full power and almost boiling over

Decision, descisions about that bank of tall units....quite like the idea of mounting the microwave between the two ovens & agree that it looks like we will have to compromise on something as you have said.
You could always ditch the larder unit. It's not as if you wont have enough storage in the rest of the kitchen.

I think 1 wall storage unit either side of the extractor will balance that wall up a bit.
I agree.

I thought the splashback under the extractor would beef up that wall, but you say it would make it more lost. Can you please explain?
I just think that having just a chimney hood, with a splashback underneath, will draw your attention to it more. It'll make it more of a feature, but I feature that just doesn't look finished. I'll do some pics to show what I mean

We were thinking of units without any pelmet or cornice for an uncluttered look, so the 2297mm unit height is the bare unit.
If it's going to be a shaker style door, you should be putting some kind of trim on there, otherwise it just wont look finished. Maybe just put an 18mm panel above and below the wall/tall units would make it look finished, without being overpowering (again, I'll show you on some pics)
Cheers Madcow :beer:

Ta da.....

Ben84

Meepster wrote: »

I think that about sums up my opinions...

Hi Meepster,

I'm still not really convinced that the microwave is easy to get to because it's not the height I'm considering, but more that there's a counter in front of it so that nobody can stand directly in front of it? Short people (children being the most likely example in the average house) and people who find it difficult to lift heavy things will not find this a good place for it.

The rest of my suggestions do come with consequences, good and bad perhaps, including a loss of fridge/freezer space, which I'm glad you mentioned because I was very focused on getting things in the best locations as that's what I worry about, so I didn't explore this very well.

I think the ovens are more questionable though because we rarely pack them full like fridges and freezers, instead it's largely about the number of shelves. Both ovens in my double oven are about the same size as a typical single oven and have two shelves each. A few cubic litres less may not translate in to much difference in height/depth at all, so within reason, does oven capacity matter all that much?

Anyway, a lot of these ideas came from being concerned there isn't any space next to the ovens and things like the fridge/freezer are not near the likely food preparation area, which I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on? It just doesn't seem that good having to go backwards and forwards across the room every time you take something out. Often things are taken out for just a moment to check progress, so there could be a lot of extra running around with hot pans. Same for the fridge/freezer, I would trade the space inside for the convenience of having it closer, but I realise others may feel differently and design is somewhat subjective I like the idea of having everything in the right place so that using the kitchen flows nicely much more than I would worry about having specific appliances.