Capital One - "deceased's estate letter"

purplephoenix85

Hi,

I don't normally post on this board, but would appreciate any help that you may give.

My father passed away in late May, and we have still been receiving statements for his Capital One Card. Since he passed, we have notified them and confirmed in writing what had happened to his personal estate upon his death. He did not leave any significant monies or valuables, he was retired and living on attendance allowance, in receipt due to his terminal cancer. We explained that there weren't any savings or any assets left of value. I've been helping my mum sort out the financial side of things, but there's some things I don't know how to deal with.

Now we have received a Financial Information form, to detail assets/liabilities and I have a few questions on how it needs to be filled in, any advice would be helpful;

• Bank account - is this the exact balance of my parents' joint account on the date of his death? Bearing in mind it's a joint account, some of the money in it was her carers benefits and not his attendance allowance/pension...
• Motor vehicle - when he was seriously ill a year ago, he could no longer drive so the car was SORN'd and is now in my brother's possession to try to fix. I don't know whose name the car was registered when my father passed, but do we include this anyway since he once owned it? It's not working and has no tangible value.
• Funeral expenses - £1200 paid in cash, which was taken from mum's bereavement allowance (from their joint bank account) and £900 from DWP for funeral expenses assistance. How do we allocate this?
• Rent arrears - my mother had immediately taken over the payment of rent at the time of his death, using her benefits, and is paid fortnightly in advance. I'm not sure how to allocate this either.
• What other liabilities could be included?

The thing that confuses me the most is it's hard to define what was his money and what is/was her money, in the joint account which then went into her name. I don't think her benefits should be included in working out his finances... but it's all a mess to me.

Thanks in advance!

System

Don't know the answers to other bits but for the joint account
From the direct.gov site.

Money in joint accounts

The deceased person may have held money with another person in a joint bank or building society account. Normally this means that the surviving joint owner automatically owns the money. The money does not form part of the deceased person's estate for the purpose of administration and therefore does not need to be dealt with by the executor or administrator.

They therefore don't need to know anything about it as it is not part of his estate. If the only accounts were joint then the answer is Nil

purplephoenix85

Thanks! I've been reading so much information on it all that everything has blurred into one big confusion. But this at least clarifies the banking! One consumer site I bookmarked (and now unbookmarked!), said that since benefits payments include NI numbers on all payments into accounts, that I'd have to sift through statements and separate her benefits from his! That's half of the weight off my shoulders, now. Thanks !!!!!!

poppasmurf_bewdley

Did your Father owe them any money?

If he did, I think you'll find they have no claim if he didn't leave any estate. I don't think you have any need to fill in any forms and give any information.

If they wish to take it further (which I doubt) they will have to do it through the courts - and they can't as you Father is no longer here.

jonesMUFCforever

I agree with last post - simply write a letter signed by executors or next of kin if there are no executors stating that there is no funds available to repay any outstanding balance and ask that it be written off.

chattychappy

For completeness (and to add confusion), it is true that some assets can pass outside of the estate. Eg a house owned as "joint tenants", joint account (as above), or even a "donatio mortis causa" (DMC - very rare). But there is provision in the Insolvency Act 1986 for such assets to be taken into consideration even though they do not form part of the estate. A court order is required and there is judicial discretion. Highly unlikely in a case such as this.

For this reason, I would separate out the bank account but still disclose it.

In the case of the car, it really does come down to who owned it at the time of death. If it had already been given away, then leave it off. If still owned by your father than just put down a rough estimate of its value then - which could be very low given its state.

Rent arrears and any other debts should be put down as a liability. Not sure about bereavement allowance/funeral assistance expenses. Are they loans to be repaid by an estate should it be solvent? If so they should go down as liabilities, else ignore.

BTW, are you (or your mother) an executor? If not, it's not your responsibility to do all the legwork. Whilst it might be the most "decent" way of handling this, I wouldn't put too much effort into answering CapitalOne's questions. Just make sure that you don't say anything misleading.

purplephoenix85

poppasmurf -

Did your Father owe them any money?
If he did, I think you'll find they have no claim if he didn't leave any estate.

He only had a small outstanding balance, but any monies left won't cover the repayments.

jonesMUFCforever-

simply write a letter signed by executors or next of kin if there are no executors stating that there is no funds available to repay any outstanding balance and ask that it be written off.

We did state in the letter that we don't have the money, etc, which resulted in being sent this form to fill in. So I think that this could be the decider for whether or not they will write it off or pursue the debt.

chattychappy-
The car was taken before he died, and will have been technically owned by my brother since then, but I don't know the date of when the registration was changed. If the registration wasn't filed until just after the death, I don't think we'd have a leg to stand on. I know it's something I need to sort out with him, but I'm not a driver, I don't know how the DVLA work at the best of times lol.

The funeral expenses and bereavement benefits are government entitlements, understood to be non-repayable. So I think they'll be ignored.

The outstanding household utilities that were in his name, would they be included under 'other'? Or are they just the generic things carried forward under my mother's responsibilities?

Me and my mum aren't really anything, we're just the ones picking up the pieces - no will or statements involved, he was just an old man with not a lot to leave behind. It's only C.O we're having this issue with.

poppasmurf_bewdley

Then just send them a letter stating that he left no estate, and left nothing of any value.

State that he appointed no Executors, has no solicitor, and that the Card Company will have to sort out anything should they desire as you are not going to proceed any further with the matter.

I would suggest you send a photocopy of the death certificate just in case they think you're trying to pull a fast one.

purplephoenix85

Follow up:

Just got a letter through today from Capital One to say the account has been closed. Upon the advice of CAB, we just filled all the boxes in with '0' as legally, at the time of death everything shifted into my mother's name so he had nothing. The car (in brother's possession) and bank balance weren't questioned for this reason.

I hope this info can help anyone who, unfortunately, has to do one of these forms.

Thanks again for your help

Burly_Ken

An estate is insolvent if the assets are insufficient to pay all the funeral, testamentary and administration expenses, debts and liabilities. The beneficiaries of the deceased's will or the deceased's next of kin under the intestacy rules will receive nothing and the creditors of the estate will not be paid in full.

Funeral and legal costs take priority.

Next in line come secured debts, such as mortgages.

All other debts are then treated equally and in an insolvent estate may not be paid off in full, if at all.

Its as simple as that. You are under no obligation to complete the form that Crapone have sent you. Tell them the estate is insolvent and invite them to take out the Grant of Representation if they want. They will find out then that there is nothing to administer. They won't do it, I can assure you.