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To buy or not following poor survey report on loft conversion?

HappyBeano
Posts: 3 Newbie
Hi
Advice appreciated - we are in the early stages of purchasing a Victorian terraced cottage located within a conservation area - we've not signed anything or paid a deposit so can easily pull out, although it's heart wrenching as we quickly became emotionally attached to what we thought was our dream house.
We instructed a surveyor who expressed serious concerns about the loft conversion - it seems it's been done without planning permission and without meeting building consents relating to fire safety. i.e. floor has not been reinforced and there is an open staircase leading to it. The agent marketed is as 'not to be considered a habitable room' which is I guess how they get around meeting the proper consents?
Effectively, we believe we can only safely/legally (for insurance reasons) use the loft for storage, which is rather disappointing as we'd hoped to use it as a guest bedroom and/or an office.
Our surveyor advised us to not to proceed but we wondered, if we did only use it for storage, would it be OK? (since we love everything else about the house). Or, does the open staircase mean it's a fire risk, regardless of it being used for storage or otherwise, and would this affect our ability to have it adequately insured? Our surveyor was worried that in time, we'd be tempted to use the room for more than storage and he's probably right.
We're also worried about these issues being raised against us when we come to sell.
Does it sound like a dead duck, should we cut our losses and pull out? Ultimately, it's probable that our lender won't approve our mortgage anyway when these issues are disclosed.
We think we know the answer, it's just disappointing. Interestingly, when we spoke to the estate agent today with our concerns, he told us that 300 houses within this conservation area have loft conversions done to the same specs without the appropriate consents and that no one else seems to worry. Seems hard to believe!
Your thoughts and advice are appreciated.
Advice appreciated - we are in the early stages of purchasing a Victorian terraced cottage located within a conservation area - we've not signed anything or paid a deposit so can easily pull out, although it's heart wrenching as we quickly became emotionally attached to what we thought was our dream house.
We instructed a surveyor who expressed serious concerns about the loft conversion - it seems it's been done without planning permission and without meeting building consents relating to fire safety. i.e. floor has not been reinforced and there is an open staircase leading to it. The agent marketed is as 'not to be considered a habitable room' which is I guess how they get around meeting the proper consents?
Effectively, we believe we can only safely/legally (for insurance reasons) use the loft for storage, which is rather disappointing as we'd hoped to use it as a guest bedroom and/or an office.
Our surveyor advised us to not to proceed but we wondered, if we did only use it for storage, would it be OK? (since we love everything else about the house). Or, does the open staircase mean it's a fire risk, regardless of it being used for storage or otherwise, and would this affect our ability to have it adequately insured? Our surveyor was worried that in time, we'd be tempted to use the room for more than storage and he's probably right.
We're also worried about these issues being raised against us when we come to sell.
Does it sound like a dead duck, should we cut our losses and pull out? Ultimately, it's probable that our lender won't approve our mortgage anyway when these issues are disclosed.
We think we know the answer, it's just disappointing. Interestingly, when we spoke to the estate agent today with our concerns, he told us that 300 houses within this conservation area have loft conversions done to the same specs without the appropriate consents and that no one else seems to worry. Seems hard to believe!
Your thoughts and advice are appreciated.
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Comments
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Yes it's OK to use for storage. The issue is most likely to be that the joists are insufficiently thick/deep and not close enough together to safely support the weight of furniture and a person in that space over a period of time..... and the floor/ceiling might just give way without any warning due to overloading by heavy stuff on the weakest part of a joist.
The room has been advertised clearly as being for storage - and that's what you'd do when you sold it. Or, you could investigate the cost of a proper conversion.
It's all about a habitable room having more human traffic/likelihood of heavy furniture on top of inadequate joists .... so it's a safety issue. And I'm sure you'd not want a guest and the furniture going through the floor at 3am.... especially if your bed is directly beneath that.0 -
Depending on how badly the conversion has been done, if structurally supporting timbers have been removed, the roof structure may be unable to support the weight of the roof, never mind anything you put up there. It may be in imminent possibility of collapse, if not immediately then during the next high winds or heavy snow loading.
Even if it hasn't been mucked about with, attic joists are intended to hold up the ceiling of the room below, nothing else. Using it for storage is likely to increase deflection of the joists leading to cracked ceilings (and as it's probably lath and plaster, that can mean large chunks of ceiling falling off).
It's terraced, so under English party wall law you will have two neighbours to keep happy (or pay off) for any structural alterations, and in a conservation area there will probably be additional restrictions about windows or changing the roof treatment etc.
The open staircase is a fire risk because it increases the available fuel load in the escape route for the first floor, even if the loft isn't used for habitation.Interestingly, when we spoke to the estate agent today with our concerns, he told us that 300 houses within this conservation area have loft conversions done to the same specs without the appropriate consentsA kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.0 -
HappyBeano wrote: »
Interestingly, when we spoke to the estate agent today with our concerns, he told us that 300 houses within this conservation area have loft conversions done to the same specs without the appropriate consents and that no one else seems to worry. Seems hard to believe!
You need to remember estate agents are sales men/women and act for the seller. You don't need any qualifications to become one.
Some have a clue about housing and the appropriate law, but a lot don't.I'm not cynical I'm realistic
(If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)0 -
Thanks everyone for your comments.
I realise the estate agent is working for the vendors and that his words must be taken with a pinch of salt, although he is in a somewhat knowledgable position in that he's worked as an agent within the conservation area for 30 years and does seem to monopolise the sales in the area. So he is very familiar with many of the houses, having sold them numerous times over the years (according to him!).
We have seen several other places advertised in the area that have had the lofts converted and whilst we haven't had surveys done on them, they have open staircases which must breach the fire safety aspect. I realise that just because it's common, doesn't make it right, it just interests me that more people aren't concerned about it.
I did ask our surveyor about reinforcing the loft floor. He'd spoken to a structural engineer who is familiar with the property and their opinion was that it wasn't feasible, financially or practically.0 -
HappyBeano wrote: »Thanks everyone for your comments.
I realise the estate agent is working for the vendors and that his words must be taken with a pinch of salt, although he is in a somewhat knowledgable position
I did ask our surveyor about reinforcing the loft floor. He'd spoken to a structural engineer who is familiar with the property and their opinion was that it wasn't feasible, financially or practically.
So are you going to listen to the man you paid or the man trying to make money from you buying something?0 -
HappyBeano wrote: »Thanks everyone for your comments.
I realise that just because it's common, doesn't make it right, it just interests me that more people aren't concerned about it.
I did ask our surveyor about reinforcing the loft floor. He'd spoken to a structural engineer who is familiar with the property and their opinion was that it wasn't feasible, financially or practically.
From what I can tell, it doesn't worry most people that they drive at 80mph on the motorway with a gap of 15 feet from the car in front. It would certainly worry me and I want nothing to do with it, so I'm not sure that argument holds much weight. Move on and find another property."You're never beaten until you admit it."0 -
im interested in this as my OH stores a lot of his stuff up in the loft
he has plastic racking shelving whichhave books and board games on (he 'collects' them). we also have the christmas tree stuff, plus suitcases
plus a trunk of our daughters, its a metal trunk
our house is 1929 and i think it had lathe and plaster although im not sure, is the ceiling going to collapse?0 -
I live in a 1930s property that has had a similar 'loft coversion' done. The house was clearly advertised as having this storeage space, and so far thats all its been used for. A much easier way to get things up into the loft than using a ladder. The surveyor flagged ours up and made it clear it was storeage only, as it has no windows i dont think anyone would have considered it a proper room anyway.
We are tempted to have a proper loft conversion done at some point, as seeing the space does make you appreciate how good a room it could be.
Our 'conversion' was done sometime around the late 80's or early 90's so its been like that a long time, the roof supports have not been cut away, so there has been no movement in the roof or any sagging below - but theres nothing heavy up there - just the usual junk you get in lofts.
It wouldnt put me off, as long as there had not been any damage done to the roof support.0 -
Well we're on the verge of pulling out. Told the estate agent and he passed on our concerns to the vendors, apparently they're having an architect and builder come around tomorrow to see if anything can be done to remedy the situation and are prepared to reduce the price. All may not be lost...0
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Your own independent surveyor has told you that the work does not meet building regs and that it's neither cost effective nor practical to rectify the work.
I can understand you wanting to hold onto the possibility of the house you've fallen for, but what will you do if the seller comes back with their own views / reduction in price? Even if you decided to go with something from a seller who has a vested interest in persuading you against your own advisors, can you imagine the disruption and risk for bringing it up to standard?0
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