Cowboy Clients,Customers from Hell

kmmr

I am a customer, and would tend to agree. People love making threads here where they threaten to not pay tradesmen, or retain £10,000 for some random reason. I think someone the other day said the builders had damaged a drain cover, and they were going to fix it next week, so they were going to hold back all payments until it was resolved. Some huge out of proportion amount, with a builder who was otherwise doing an ok job.

I did think that perhaps this was a bit out of proportion!

In defence of customers though, sometimes we don't realize that you are quoting a cheap price, and so expectations should be lowered. You have to remember this may be the only time I have replaced xxx widgets, so I really don't know if it's a £100 or £1000 job. So if you quote £300, I just think that is the right price! Then later if I am told 'well, you pay a cheap price, what did you expect?'... how was I supposed to know!!

MaggieBaking

I think more often than not it's too difficult for a TV show/article to prove about an excellent job that hasn't been paid for. The client is hardly likely to allow someone in to film how good it all was. They often allow for the "other side of the story" no matter how hilariously false it sounds on Rogue Traders and the like. Unfortunately for a tradesman against a client there is little proof for his side of the story and the other side will no doubt sound bad against the business.

Also - normally the shows involve "Avoid this business" found at these websites, trading under these names etc. It's not "This is a bad person, here's their home address and personal contact number" - because they would get into deep trouble (and rightly so).

I also imagine that for a lot of trades - there is a feeling of "should have known better" than to let them be put in a situation where they are so easily bankrupt. Normally on the Cowboy Builder shows they highlight customers who have been taken advantage of, the elderly etc. If you are going to run a business and put your livelihood at stake you should be putting as many safety nets in there as you can, and if you do work worth £50k and don't see a penny for it, people are going to be sympathetic but they will also think (quietly) "How on earth did it get that far?!".

It's a lot easier to believe that one company can ruin someone's home than one person can bring down a whole company.

MaggieBaking

the_r_sole wrote: »

sure i've seen a website about this before
this one is more a funny one, but some of the stories are hilarious http://clientsfromhell.net/

Thanks for the link, it's good!

This is my fave - (the customer is) http://notalwaysright.com/

erdd2

robert2011 wrote: »

Hi Biggles,
I was meaning in the newspapers or tv .There is nothing said about clients with slick lawyers not paying small firms or sole traders ,thus making them bankrupt. But you get lots of builders from hell tv shows news articles, why is this ?

The individual is small game and as a previous poster stated....if you can afford a slick lawyer (few and far between and even less available on LA) why hire a "small time" builder?

I do lean towards the view that no one client can wreak the same level of havoc of a rogue trades person/builder

capeverde

The only real problem I can get is regarding payment times. We are fortunate that a large part of our business is internet based and so we always have a positive cash flow in so much as customers pay before we dispatch the goods. However, some of our larger structures are installed locally and I always operate on a no deposit, payment on completion basis. I feel this gives the customer peace of mind and we have total confidence in our product and workmanship. I always stipulate though, that as we proceed on this basis, I do expect settlement as soon as the job is completed to their satisfaction. Throughout installation I update the customer on a daily basis re time scales and progress, which may be impacted by weather etc, so they know exactly whats happening. Most customers are great, but you get the occasional one who will say 'oh, I'll order the money from my 30 day account then' This really hacks me off, but I will always smile and go along with it, as its not worth ruining a good job for the sake of 30 days. However, if the tradesman cant stand this amount personally, this will basically put him off work for a month as he wont be able to afford to buy materials for the next job. Contrary to popular opinion a lot of one man bands only just have their heads above water.

robert2011

Is the suffering of builders any less than clients ? TV shows ,Newspapers paint a very bad image of British builders. This is not good for the industry or the UK economy, the cause of this problem is: apart from corgi reg gas heating engineers, you do not need any qualifications to be a plumber,joiner,electrician,brickie Unbeliavable but TRUE !
Where all this scaremongering is taking us Folks is soon all trades must pass competence tests to be credited with a trade card, like the plumbers did in 1996 for the gas cert.

I am in favour of this ! but with money in short supply , who will be able to afford £80 call out charge for a joiner and around £50 p hour for his time ?

jillytb

Tell us more about your three court cases Robert? I think the building trade should be regulated, at least trading standards have started the "buywithconfidence" lists and the NICEIC accredit electrical firms and they were a tremendous help to me when I had issues with an electrical firm, who are no longer members I may add.

sunshinetours

Reason that the building trade has a high bankruptcy record is not down purely to rogue customers but down to the fact that anyone can set up as a "trade" without any business or technical knowledge. The way I see some of my trades clients keeping their business records they really have no idea what is going on and its no wonder they go bust (despite advice). Many run it this was an go bankrupt when they run out of money or work and then set up under different names/family names/different limited companies and so the cycle repeats

Yes like any other service business that deals with the general; public, there are also certainly rogue customers. With a bit of experience generally comes the ability to sniff many of these out early though

capeverde

but the regulation doesnt help the consumer, it simply raises funds for the govt and costs the customer more. Look at what fensa has done to the double glazing industry-nothing at all, its a money making exercise and the firms are very rarely examined and punished even less. Fensa is toothless. Same as all these recommedation sites, they can be manipulated very easily. Who is going to regulate the consumer?

jillytb

I agree it is a bit of a catch 22 but these are so called business people providing a service and you hear just one horror story after the next. Like someone said earlier, what is to stop a tradesperson putting a CCJ on the customer who fails to pay, it can be done easily and cheaply and a bad credit rating has drastic consequences. But in the scheme of things, as it stands, there is nothing in place to stop dodgy builders, they can set up time and time again as Limited Companies, and what about taxing them? How many builders ask for cash in hand, a higher rate is applied if payment is by cheque or bank. At the end of the day most consumers need builders when it comes to home improvements and want a decent job and indeed a builder wants paying, but just about everyone has a story to tell about a dodgy builder and I now have a pack in place where they sign my terms if they want to do work for me, I had a bad experience and learnt a lot. Builders have walked away but I have two guys I call upon, a great electrician firm and their plumbers who I work with - everything above board, invoices supplied and contracts and quotes agreed in advance.