Used Car Garage and Hire Purchase problems

Ash132

Afternoon folks, sorry this is a bit long but tried to get everything in. Wasnt sure if this is the right forum but with this being under a hire purchase this seemed like the closest match.

I bought a 2002 Toyota Corolla T-Sport from a local garage in late July 2010 on hire purchase under my mothers name. Within a couple of weeks the engine check light, the vehicle stability control (VSC) and the traction control off (TRC OFF) all came on at once. I took the vehicle immediately back (one of about 5 times it went back for various problems, none of which were sorted satisfactorily) as it came with a 3 month warranty . The car was returned a number of days later and indeed those three lights were no longer illuminated. Within a couple days however I noticed the engine check light was not coming on during the preignition. Again took it back as I was not happy about that but was told that they had done some checks and there definitely was no faults and the light would come on if there was a problem. For reasons I still don't understand I took their word on this and took the vehicle back. Fast forward to April 2011 and while driving home the engine has a catastrophic failure. From what I can tell one of the con rods has snapped and punched its way through the block. End result is the engine is completely destroyed and the cost of a repair outweighs the value of the car (second hand engine alone is £1500-2000). At least I had my AA membership from when I had to get one after the offside rear brake dismantled itself due to another bodged repair (honestly for a supposedly serviced and MOTd car I am now amazed at how many things are wrong with it) so got a tow home. I initially tried to get the garage to take it back or at least buy it back at a decent price but they were not interested so decided to try and sell it as is. At this point I was unaware of how a hire purchase agreement worked nor the rights I had. With no success with that either I decided to part out the vehicle to release some value from it. The first item I sold happened to be the instrument cluster which I sent off. Within days the gent I sold it to emailed me to say he had opened up the unit, because he wanted the coloured LEDs my model had,
and found a large amount of black silicon sealant had been injected into the plastic surround of three of the warning lights, which just to happened to be the engine check, VSC and TRC OFF lights. I was of course livid at this news and gave the guy a full refund to return the unit which he was more than happy to do.

At this point knowing that the only time the car had been out of my possession was the time it was with the garage I was 100% sure they were the ones responsible. As I was completely unaware of what to do in this situation I contacted consumer direct who put me on to trading standards who advised I would have to go see the garage first to see if the situation could be resolved that way first. Both my father and I dutifully went along with the pictures of what was found but the owner said he sometimes sends out vehicles to other garages and would need to do some investigations so we agreed that he would call me within a week. Not surprisingly there was no call so I called a week after the meeting to be told he had found nothing out (didn't sound like he had even tried in my opinion) so said I would call again within a few days again. I was by now looking in to the legal aspects of all this and realised the car was purchased on hire purchase and as such I should contact the finance company also. I called them and explained the situation to generally be told that because it was 2 weeks over a year since the purchase they were unwilling to do anything about it. They also said that I should not be selling off parts of the car. I now know that indeed I should not have tried selling parts but at that point only the cluster had been sold so with its return I put all the removed parts back on the car so it was in the same condition as after the engine failure (in fact better as I replaced a few of the screws/bolts that had rusted and sheered ). The follow up call to the garage 5 days later was much the same as before so I stated that no matter who did it, it was his responsibility to put right as the person who sold me the car and whose care it was under at the time the silicon was injected in the cluster and said I wanted a full refund. He laughed at this and at my saying I would take it further if need be before saying that was my prerogative and hanging up. Incensed I again called the finance company so I could confirm the address to send a complaint to and that if written permission was added that they could deal with me despite the policy being in my mothers name. This was one of the more interesting calls I have had with a 'professional' company with such phrases as 'I can guarantee we are not going to do a thing about it mate', 'I wouldn't even bother sending the letter' and brilliantly now I know more about hire purchasing 'why are you even contacting us about it? You should deal with the garage, I fail to see what it has to do with us'. Before the call ended one of the things they said was along the lines of that if I tried to complain they would call in the loan as I had breached the contract by taking parts off to sell. Now I do understand why they would recall the loan but the way it was said and in the context I took that as a threat.

This is basically where I am now and not sure what to do next. I want to send a letter to the finance company but I do not have the money to hand to cover it if they recall the loan. Can they do this even though as soon as I knew that I shouldn't sell items I got the only one I had sold back made every effort to rectify what I had done, which as I say has brought the car back to the condition before I started removing stuff? I know ignorance isn’t an excuse but I honestly had no idea about hire purchases, sale of goods acts etc and was just trying to get some value out of the vehicle. I got in contact with trading standards but they said as far as they are concerned I have no options as it would all be too difficult to prove anything etc. I should add I have a bit of supporting evidence in so much that back in August 2010 I made a post on a Toyota owners club forum that the 3 lights in question had come on and that I was suspicious that they did not come up on the preignition check when I got the car back (I still to this day wish I had followed up on those suspicions but I have a trusting nature and took they guys word for it). The guy that bought the cluster is also willing to write any necessary supporting statements as to what he found

If anyone can advise me at all it would be greatly appreciated as all of this is making me feel very ill and I just want these folks to put right what they have done and hopefully not do it to anyone else!

Some further info:

Toyota Corolla T-Sport 2002
Mileage ~ 83000
Purchase price £3450 (£3000 after £450 trade in)
Date on HP agreement: 26th July 2010
Engine blew on April 9th 2011, AA receipt copy is being sent out.

If I am missing anything or you need more info just ask.

Thanks in advance
Ashley

jonesMUFCforever

You bought a 9 year old car with high mileage that is now out of warranty.
Was it inspected before or as you made the purchase?

I feel you have nowhere to go with this but you will have to carry on with the repayments until the finance is repaid.

Sorry if this is not what you want to hear.

Peelerfart

Sorry buddy try honest john - this aint one for the loans board.

Good luck though yeah

PF

chanz4

surely the cam belt which sounds like it snapped should of been changed @ 80k?

Common_Sense_2

old car, with high mileage (and a 'sport model that has probably been ragged in it's life) i think you were lucky to get year out of it.

iolanthe07

Seven years is reckoned to be the average life of a car these days, so you have had an extra two. You can't expect a comprehensive warranty with such an old car, and with spending only 3 grand the dealer doesn't have much of a margin to play around with. I don't think you've got much of a case, tbh. Sorry.

heathcote123

iolanthe07 wrote: »

Seven years is reckoned to be the average life of a car these days, so you have had an extra two. You can't expect a comprehensive warranty with such an old car, and with spending only 3 grand the dealer doesn't have much of a margin to play around with. I don't think you've got much of a case, tbh. Sorry.

ner, more like 12 -13

iolanthe07

heathcote123 wrote: »

ner, more like 12 -13

I was quoting Honest John in the Telegraph. If I recall correctly, he reckons a modern car has a life of about 7 years, though obviously some last much longer.

Mallotum_X

iolanthe07 wrote: »

Seven years is reckoned to be the average life of a car these days, so you have had an extra two. You can't expect a comprehensive warranty with such an old car, and with spending only 3 grand the dealer doesn't have much of a margin to play around with. I don't think you've got much of a case, tbh. Sorry.

7 years... lol Dont think so, where did you get that 'stat' from? 12 or so would be more likely as a reasonable lifetime. Average would include crash based write offs perhaps which really are not relevant.

The dealer undertook bodged repairs, regardeless of the age of the car thats not on.

But its going to a bit of his word against the OP's so you may well end up stuck with this one.

NeverEnough

I'm with Mallotum X on this one: 7 years? I don't think so! Our extended family alone has 7 vehicles I can think of right off all of which are well over 7 years old and are in good general daily use with no reason to believe they will fail catastrophically anytime soon. BMW even sell 6 year old cars from some of their more expensive ranges on the Approved Used Car site and will provide full warranties on them, extendable to over 100 000 miles.

Whoever has come up with a car only lasts 7 years is talking complete rubbish, it isn't even a reasonable average!! I think that its reasonable to expect at least 10 years from a car that has been reasonably maintained within manufacturers guidelines- sounds as if the OPs car suffered a cambelt snapping which destroyed the engine - should really have checked on a car that age if the cambelt had been changed and when, an expensive lesson and probably a rogue car dealer, but OP is likely to have difficulty proving the fraud and misrepresentation at this stage and is in any event, liable to the finance company for the remainder of the finance. Buying an old car can be a complete nightmare if you are not 100% aware of the pitfalls and a complete lack of certified history as to cambelt changes and the like, would certainly make me walk away.

£3450 for an old Toyota was pretty expensive, anyway - much better deals available for cars of that age and Sport models of any age need to be scrutinised even more carefully as they tend to be "thrashed" throughout their lives............

While the OP is probably quite accurate in his summing up of the car dealers behaviour, I think the lapse of time and the fact that it will be really difficult to prove who did what to the car, will mean he will need to put this down to experience and pay the finance up and recover what he can on parts when he has done so, or look for an engine from a breakers to try to get the car running again.

Peelerfart

I read the same report/review as iolanthe07 and sure enough HJ states that the average desgin life of a car is 7 years.

Not 100% sure what a design life is but I'll see if I can find the article.