what size shoe is classed as adult size?

zaksmum

Just bought a pair of shoes in Office for my grandson who's 11, he takes a size 4 shoe.

In the shop the staff said that although he's a child, VAT was payable on the shoes as it starts to become payable on all shoes over size 2.

So the adult and child sizes were the same price, effectively making the children's shoes 20% more expensive than the adult sizes, as VAT is paid on the adult shoes but not the children's.

I always understood shoes were considered to be adult size after about size 5. Are there any actual gudelines on this?

balletshoes

I would say its more likely to be a size 3 upwards which would be adult size - but then it may also be store specific, as I can still get size 2 and 3 shoes for my DD which are childrens, but she can also occasionally fit adult size.

pigpen

I thought it was about a size 5/6 for boys shoes and 3/4 for girls..

JasonLVC

HMRC have published guidance on this :-

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000138&propertyType=document#P20_825

Section 4.3 refers to footwear and can be upto Size 6.5 for boys.

There are two conditions for zero rating. Firstly that they are designed to be worn by children and secondly that they are held out for sale for children/designed solely for children.

In other words, if they are actually adult items in the adult section and you just happen to have a large child then the shop may charge VAT as the items fail the 'held out as childrens clothing test'. This is often the case for things like jumpers where chubbier kids have to buy grown up jumpers and pay the VAT.

If you can prove to HMRC that the shoe is only made for children to wear and was in the kiddies section then you might be alright, otherwise the shop is correct.

Else you'd get people sending their kids into buy size 14 trainers for Dad - which is why the rules are strictly enforced.

zaksmum

The shoes were Vans, which are worn by males and females, you wouldn't say they were solely childrens shoes.

JasonLVC

zaksmum wrote: »

The shoes were Vans, which are worn by males and females, you wouldn't say they were solely childrens shoes.

Its a grey area for sure, personally if they're not specifically for the child market then the shop is well within the law to charge VAT becuase Vans are more grown up shoes compared to say something with Thomas the Tank Engine on it.....and this is the basis they can give you as to why they're charging the VAT.

You might get better luck at another shop buying the exact same shoe, but is the luck of the draw.

The fact the shoe is also uni-sex complicates it further as for girls the shoe size is smaller so shop could argue the shoe is not eligible on that basis. Sorry I cannot be any more help nut the Notice is useful for all forms of clothing as it shows what sizes are acceptable for shirts, shoes, hats, etc.

Zoetoes

zaksmum wrote: »

The shoes were Vans, which are worn by males and females, you wouldn't say they were solely childrens shoes.

Oh I know what you mean, I paid £35 for my 10 year old, for a pair of canvas pumps in a size 3!

zaksmum

Thanks Jason, you've been really helpful. Looks like the shop was within it's rights then?

moomoomama27

I thought it was size 3 girls, and size 6 boys.

zaksmum

From what I understand it was around size 5 for both girls and boys, but with Vans, both boys and girls wear them, and the styles are similar for adult and child, i.e. glorified pumps!!

It seems that if footwear is not specifically for either boys or girls and not SOLELY for children, the shop can charge the VAT.

Have I got that right?

kingfisherblue

My eleven year old son has size 11 feet, so I've been paying VAT on his shoes for years