Solar Energy (OFF GRID)??

deanowolves

Hello all,

Apologies if this is a repeat, I did do a search but didnt really see a clear answer, but its probably on here somewhere!

The reason for my post is I want to learn more about the possibility of harnessing Solar Power and using it OFF GRID. I know it is possible, but to what extent?

I know this may seem a little barmy as I know that many electricity companies pay you for feeding back into the grid, but surey if I can get to the stage where I'm USING little energy, I'd hardly be using electic from the grid anyway!? I dont see why we should 'sell' electricity back to the grid produced using your own equipment on your own property for a small portion of what we buy it for from them, and I'm sure they will become more and more greedy as time goes on, so I'd like to think of the day where I have my own system and they can stick their ridiculously high charges where the sun DOESNT shine (excuse the pun! :-) )!!

We have a good sized garden where solar panels could be placed and batteries stored, so does anyone know if that gives the platform for this to be possible!?

We are already replacing most lighting with LED (there are some damn good LED's out there now, a bit pricey but should last almost a lifetime and are way lower than even the tradition energy saving bulbs). When turning on lights in the house now our energy monitor only shows minute increases in usage. I'm sure if you combined your own off grid system with being 'energy smart' this could be a success?!

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this and to find out about any success stories or current projects!

By the way - we are probably having an extension next year and I was thinking of having the whole extension off grid, but having the wiring put in place beforehand to easily connect to the grid in the future if required. Is this a silly idea or a decent one?!

Take care,

Dean

Cardew

Welcome to the forum.

I assume you are talking about a 'conventional' PV system that attracts the FIT subsidy, but storing as much as possible of your generated electricity(that you didn't use in the house) in batteries?

Several people on MSE have flirted with this idea, but the cost and complexity made the system a non-starter.

For a start using batteries to handle the sort of power you will be generating is not for the faint hearted. You will be able to use some DC voltage for lighting, but will require an inverter for the 240 voltage.

Location of batteries is important - again you can't have long cables from batteries somewhere in your garden, leading into the house.

macman

You're can't directly compare the tasks of exporting a kWh of electricity to the grid with the cost of producing it and delivering a kWh to your home.

victor2

Just work out how much electricity you can expect to get from a solar panel on an average day and you'll find you need a very large garden, loads of money and very low usage. One reason why there are no commercial solar powered generating stations in this country.
A garden catching the sun, this sort of size, might help....

Pincher

What do you expect to do in winter?

I expect you will end up recharging the batteries with a petrol/diesel generator.

What about burning wood to run steam engines to generate electricity? You could pass the used steam through a thermal store, to get hot water, some of the electricity could be stored in batteries.

Don't forget to put an alarm on your freezer, or you'll get food poisoning.

grahamc2003

deanowolves wrote: »

We have a good sized garden where solar panels could be placed and batteries stored, so does anyone know if that gives the platform for this to be possible!?


Take care,

Dean

Could I point out one problem (of many).

Say you have a 4kw system (the highest generally installed these days due to fits). If you want to store that in a bank of 12v batteries, you're going to have a current of around 330 amps. Losses are proportional to the current squared - so either you're going to get high losses or you need very thick cables for the 12v part.

The general point about solar today is that the return is from the fit subsidy is for generation, not what you use or export. For example, the fit will be several times greater than the savings you could expect from your (very impractical and non-cost effective) proposed system.

macman

You might just as well invest the funds in a company that invests in green energy, both solar and wind.
Ecotricity were recently offering fixed interest bonds on these lines.

deanowolves

Hello,

Thanks for those of you who've responded.

I didnt intend to give the impression that I was expecting to run the whole house from solar power as that was never my point - for starters I cook with electricity so didnt think this would ever be an option!

I've seen the idea of having an 'eco socket' in your house which you could have installed and just wondered how far (realistically) you could take it. My question really is, would we be better storing energy (as much as is possible) and using it where we can rather than feeding it to electricity companies who, regardless of cost of producing kWh, sell it to the next house down the road at full whack!

I believe by doing this you will use less electricity (at your ridiculous rate charged by electric company) and therefore be better off than putting it back into the grid at whatever pityful amount they give you off your bill?

Thanks!

Dean

Cardew

deanowolves wrote: »

Hello,

Thanks for those of you who've responded.

I didnt intend to give the impression that I was expecting to run the whole house from solar power as that was never my point - for starters I cook with electricity so didnt think this would ever be an option!

I've seen the idea of having an 'eco socket' in your house which you could have installed and just wondered how far (realistically) you could take it. My question really is, would we be better storing energy (as much as is possible) and using it where we can rather than feeding it to electricity companies who, regardless of cost of producing kWh, sell it to the next house down the road at full whack!

I believe by doing this you will use less electricity (at your ridiculous rate charged by electric company) and therefore be better off than putting it back into the grid at whatever pityful amount they give you off your bill?

Thanks!

Dean

It obviously makes sense to use as much of your generated electricity in the house as possible.

However this is far more difficult than most people realise and the EST has come up with a figure of £70 a year as the average saving - a perfectly reasonable assumption IMO.

I would be very surprised even with a sophisticated set-up which would cost £thousands if you would save another £70.

Also to repeat, do not under-estimate the dangers and costs involved with using batteries to supply the sort of power generated by solar panels.

It would be mandatory for a qualified and certified electrician to install such a system; and I suspect most wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

grahamc2003

deanowolves wrote: »

Hello,


I've seen the idea of having an 'eco socket' in your house which you could have installed and just wondered how far (realistically) you could take it. My question really is, would we be better storing energy (as much as is possible) and using it where we can rather than feeding it to electricity companies who, regardless of cost of producing kWh, sell it to the next house down the road at full whack!

I believe by doing this you will use less electricity (at your ridiculous rate charged by electric company) and therefore be better off than putting it back into the grid at whatever pityful amount they give you off your bill?

Thanks!

Dean

This thread is going in an almost identical way to one a few weeks ago (by someone called 'saveyourenergy' or something like that, can't remember his exact name).

Anyhow, that thread concluded with him going away to look in more detail at such a system, and he rany various people to get some idea of the costs, and that's the last we heard of him. (I think, iyswim).

Basically, it's possible to store as much energy as you like - google Dinorwig to see how much - but it simply isn't worth it financially to store any at all (by an extraordinary margin, for individuals under normal circumstances). Obviously, there are many engineers who understand these things, and probably several have got such storage systems - but those will be out of interest rather than trying to save money cost-effectively.

Do you relaise that the fit system pays around 4 times the cost of peak electricity for everything you generate, whether you use it or not? And if you don't use it, they pay an additional 3p/kwh?

Pincher

Our forefathers had harvesting solar energy down to a fine art.

Every time you bite into a slice of bread, or throw a log onto a fire, you are using harvested solar energy. Windmills have been around forever. etc.

The FIT is just an accountant's fantasy eco-cure, who think in carbon credits instead of actual carbon reduction.