Help!!! Dodgy Landlord, bullying and back dated demands from council!

MrsWoolfe

Hello All,

I was wondering if anyone here would be able to help- I've been on the boards before when I was trying to buy my first home and received a lot of very helpful advice and support and was hoping you guys could help this time.

one of my collegues, J, is in a really difficult position and we'd really appreciate any advice/suggestions:

They rent an annex which is on the same land as the LL- they have the same entrance and the utilities are all connected- they have issues at times where if someone in the main house has left taps running they have no water- and if someone in the mainhouse is using a lot of elec- eg running a hoover with the stereo on then there is no power to the annex....

they have been there two years and have trouble on and off- the LL going away and texting them to inform them he expects them to take of the animals ( they have horses and several dogs etc) - including a whole month over the xmas period which meant J couldn't get away over the break as there was no one to watch the animals...

Now all of this is just background to give you an idea of the type of LL we are dealing with. They signed a contract when they first moved in and have a copy of this- and they were also asked to sign another one a few months back- which the LL now claims to have "lost" having never given them a copy.

As far and J and her husband understood they paid their rent directly to LL and this covered everything except for heating- they buy oil separately...

now last week they received a bill out of the blue from the council demanding £2,000 within a week. J is understandably distressed, they just do NOT have this kind of money available- they went to LL who said that "he had been reported for having them living there" and it was their fault- he then went on to deny that CT was ever included in the rent paid!!!

he then pointed to a clause in the 1st contract which says "rent shall include all bills other than heat other than those discussed with LL" to me this makes no sense whatsoever as how on earth can either party prove what was "discussed"?!

Now J went to CAB who said that as he couldn't provide a copy of the contract he was the one who needed to prove the terms- as LL it is his responsibility to maintain the docs? J also went to council to try and get to the bottom of things- first they couldn't find a record of them on the system- neither through the address/bill ref etc...eventually they managed to trace the bill by using LL's name to look up property- what they discovered is that the bill had been issued to the LL and he'd been issued with a fine ( we think this is because he had failed to register the property?) but had e-mailed the council saying that he's agreed with tenant that they are resposible for CT....now this is the 1st time J had heard of any such agreement, but the council say that it is between them to sort out....

Now, what can J do? The LL has "popped in" a couple of times this week already, once offering as a "gesture of goodwill" to reduce their rent by £100 a month so they can put this towards payments for arrears and a couple of times to try and push them to say they will pay it- he has kept insisting "he's a good guy" and he's dealt with them fairly etc- when J's DH mentioned all the things he has failed to do as LL- water probs, elec issues, repairs not dealt with etc and added the issue of the LL and family treating them like the "help" when they needed anything LL stormed off and shouted that it was their problem not his.

J and her DH are in a real state- they need to move out asap as things are getting uncomfortable- and they are looking hard for somewhere else to move to, but what can they do about this bill? they are both the type of people who pay things on time and don't like to have anything undone as it were- but what can they do about this? DO they really have to pay this bill or is it the LL's responsbility? Is there a way they can challenge it?

Please help

Thanks in Advance

MrsWoolfe

00ec25

as you yourself imply it all comes down to whether J can show to the council that J is not liable for the council tax as the "annex" is not a separate dwelling for council tax purposes but is part of the main property and therefore included in the LL's liability as the resident owner

the problems are:
a) there is a contract showing J is a tenant and therefore under the hierachy of liablity the resident tenant comes before the resident owner for CT liabiity
b) is it really a "granny annex" or is it actually a separate dwelling - what do you mean by a shared entrance?
c) partly shared utilities is not a deciding factor on its own

Try posting (a shortened version!) on the tax cutting board where CIS lurks as she is in Countil Tax and will be better able to advise

Darlyd

If all the utilities are shared, then surly it should be classed as one dwelling? I would seek advice from a solicitor ASAP about this. LL sounds very dodgy.. He probably owes the tax man money too from having rent.

00ec25

darlyd wrote: »

If all the utilities are shared, then surly it should be classed as one dwelling?

the definition of a dwelling for council tax purposes (which is what I assume the bill from the council relates to) is not that simple

there are 2 elements to the OP's problem, clealry caused by the fact the LL has now been brought into the open and has not ensured the paperwork fits what should be the correct legal position:

1. is J liable for council tax at all or is the LL liable becuase it is not a separate dwelling?

2. if it is a separate dwelling then the contractual position J / LL will be down to what paperwork each party can produce to substantiate the basis of the tenancy and whio is laible for the bills - this may indeed need a solicitor

MrsWoolfe

thanks for the replies,

I've checked and by shared entrance she meant that they are on the same driveway- so the entrance to the land i guess, the building are not connected so I suppose it would be a separate dwelling...

so i suppose it comes down to the contracts then- the problem is the vague wording " the rent shall cover all bills excluding heat, other than those discussed with LL" how on earth do they show what was "discussed"? does it just come down to he said/she said?

thanks for the advice so far

lincroft1710

If "J's" home has its own facilities for eating, sleeping, washing, preparing meals and a WC and there is access other than through a main room of the LL's house then for CT purposes it is a separate dwelling. As "J" has a back-dated bill it has probably been separately assessed for several years. Shared utilities are irrelevant.

As the tenant "J" is responsible for paying the Council Tax, any "agreement" with LL does not change this, and it is "J" who will be chased if they don't pay not the LL.

MrsWoolfe

right ok then,

thanks for that, i suppose at this point it's talking to the council that will help- although I still think it is unreasonable to issue a first bill of £2K and give them only a week to pay! hopefully when she speaks to Council they will allow a payment plan of some sort ....will hope that someone at CAB can help.

thanks again

MrsWoolfe

Eton_Rifle

lincroft1710 wrote: »

If "J's" home has its own facilities for eating, sleeping, washing, preparing meals and a WC and there is access other than through a main room of the LL's house then for CT purposes it is a separate dwelling. As "J" has a back-dated bill it has probably been separately assessed for several years.

Is it the shared utilities that make the difference? I'm thinking of my own situation as I have a house with an annex. It has bedrooms, reception rooms, a bathroom, a kitchen and its own front door although you can also access it from two internal lockable doors in the main house. It shares all utilities including heating with the main house.
It does not attract separate council tax.

CIS

Try posting (a shortened version!) on the tax cutting board where CIS lurks as she is in Countil Tax and will be better able to advise

More of a 'he' last time I checked


The council have no say over whether the property is a separate dwelling, that's down to the valuation office and its the key issue here.

You need to check to see if the property has been banded as a separate dwelling or not - it can be checked here: http://www.voa.gov.uk/cti/InitS.asp?lcn=0

If its a separate dwelling then the occupier would be liable, if its not a separate dwelling then its counted as part of the main property and the landlord is liable as the resident owner.

Any agreement in the tenancy cannot override the legal responsibility of who is liable for the council tax - any other agreement would be a contractual one between your friend and the landlord only and would need to dealt with the via the county courts as a breech of contract.

centretap

MrsWoolfe wrote: »

and if someone in the mainhouse is using a lot of elec- eg running a hoover with the stereo on then there is no power to the annex....

A vacuum cleaner doesn't take much power, nor should any domestic stereo setup. If trifling things like this are affecting the power to the annexe I'd be seriously concerned about the state of the wiring.

RAS

I would be seriuosly concerned as to whether the property has building regs and planning permisions as well.