BP 'cannot find skilled workers'

gadgetmind

kabayiri wrote: »

The status of 'engineer' means more in Germany and France.

And Poland. In Poland, calling yourself an Engineer if you don't have a degree in Engineering is like calling yourself an Doctor if not qualified. I employ a few poles and they do like to pick on "engineers" who come to fix the burglar alarm or photocopier.

GingerSte

gadgetmind wrote: »

And Poland. In Poland, calling yourself an Engineer if you don't have a degree in Engineering is like calling yourself an Doctor if not qualified. I employ a few poles and they do like to pick on "engineers" who come to fix the burglar alarm or photocopier.

We engineers (proper ones ) do that here as well. I've seen a sign saying "Photocopier not working - engineer called" and somebody's crossed out "engineer" and written "technician". :T

Andy_L

CLAPTON wrote: »

I was giving the 'standard normal everyday starting salary for a 23 year old doctor that has just completed their 5 years at Uni and starting a job at a hospital

However, since most starting (graduate) jobs aren't working nights/weekends its a bit disengenous to not mention that when stating the starting salary. I mean, you'd be a bit p'ssed off if a job advert did that to you.

Andy_L

CLAPTON wrote: »

we have been 'importing' foreign doctors for years and continue to do so

Is not a lot of that becasue of Labors, manifesto, commitment to improve the NHS. Since you can't create a Doctor overnight if they'd just "opened the tap" in training (rather than recruiting/poaching overseas Drs) its only about now that that influx of extra students would be hitting Registrar

bristol_pilot

The UK still produces world class engineering graduates, but there is a shortage of experienced engineers. Why? One reason is undoubtedly that these bright people can earn far more going into management, accountancy, banking etc. A second reason is that engineering went through a terrible time a generation ago with many skilled engineers being made redundant - some of those people will now be the parents of todays generation of students, encouraging them to move on from actually doing any real engineering at the first opportunity. Actually, in THIS recession, engineering has not done too badly having had its clearout last time and the time before (you can't make 500 engineers redundnat when you only have 5 left).

kabayiri

GingerSte wrote: »

We engineers (proper ones ) do that here as well. I've seen a sign saying "Photocopier not working - engineer called" and somebody's crossed out "engineer" and written "technician". :T

We're just not that clever at creating a protectionist industry though, are we?

You don't hear of MPs being outsourced. How many Polish barristers are there working in the UK and undercutting the native legal types.

Nah, these professions have it all stitched up. In a way I admire them.

gadgetmind

GingerSte wrote: »

I've seen a sign saying "Photocopier not working - engineer called"

We all screech, "Why have you called the guys who designed this baby just to suck out the dust and change the drum!!!!"

Engineers design the world around us; the 'phones and computers we use to communicate, the machines that peer inside us to see what's wrong, the cars and planes that transport us, the bridges we drive over, and the probes that go into space and let us see the solar system and universe.

Technicians rub said machines over with an oily rag from time to time.

Do not confuse the two any more than you'd confuse the surgeon who operates on you with the guy who pushes the trolley.

CLAPTON

Andy_L wrote: »

However, since most starting (graduate) jobs aren't working nights/weekends its a bit disengenous to not mention that when stating the starting salary. I mean, you'd be a bit p'ssed off if a job advert did that to you.

I think you are missing the point of my posts

kabayiri

bristol_pilot wrote: »

The UK still produces world class engineering graduates, but there is a shortage of experienced engineers. Why? One reason is undoubtedly that these bright people can earn far more going into management, accountancy, banking etc. A second reason is that engineering went through a terrible time a generation ago with many skilled engineers being made redundant - some of those people will now be the parents of todays generation of students, encouraging them to move on from actually doing any real engineering at the first opportunity. Actually, in THIS recession, engineering has not done too badly having had its clearout last time and the time before (you can't make 500 engineers redundnat when you only have 5 left).

Very true. One of my old firms was a high tech manufacturing site employing thousands. It's now a housing estate. The skilled people working there had no choice but to adapt and do other things. You can hardly blame them for changing professions.

In the new academic reality, would you advise someone doing an engineering degree and accumulating £50K+ of debt before they started working? I'd only recommend that career to my children if they were bright enough to rise to the top.

ChiefGrasscutter

Mr_Mumble wrote: »

Damning words from James Dyson too:

I don't have a lot of time for Dyson.
He offshored his manufacturing and the associated support office staff
The result......
There is no longer a natural career progression for those in the company who have started at the bottom on the shop floor and have shown an ability to progress into the "office areas". I've seen shop floor worker progress into outside service and then into the product support/service office areas and then into the main sales areas working alongside those with degrees whom they complment very well as a team. Their product knowledge is excellent and having dealt with some faily obnoxious customers in far off places their ability to relate to people to find solutions is also good.
Without local maufacturing training up graduates in the product/production becaomes very difficult

Dyson just wants pre-trained, pre experienced, engineers to drop into his lap.
Mind you he not alone. A few years back (c2008?) I can remember the CEO's of the UKAEA, Rolls, GSK, all separately complaining about the lack of engineers and guess what, they all wanted the 'Government to do something about it'. Then there was the Sainsburys Management Fellows reporting that "most UK companies do not see engineering as a valuable resource or as a viable route to becoming a board member". The then CEO of GSK subsequently put his foot in it when he [FONT=&quot]he recounted his own early days in industry weighed down by mortgage, wife, family and a crap salary, so he quit the UK for the USA and a salary 5 times a much: [/FONT]

By the way, the President of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has a Ph.D in engineering - Civil I think - so Dyson need not wonder exactly why Iran is producing so many engineers.