BP 'cannot find skilled workers'

lostinrates

madcal87 wrote: »

I work for a rival BP company, not as well known, and many are being head hunted across.
There is no shortage of staff or skilled works, i'm a graduate and they are taking on loads. Give it a year and it will be hunky dory

Beyond that, I know two people who worked in poild companies in ''skilled roles'' one engineering one lab based, who were not graduates but had transferable skills from the Army and were quick learners. Not good enough for top jobs on entry, ample for entry level and to start aquiring job based experience to lead to promotion.

mystic_trev

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

So I went and took a career in Insurance. I'm actually very glad I did!

I never went to University (too lazy) but I ended up in Insurance too! It was really good life, and also allowed me to retire aged 42, 15 years ago, thanks to my proceeds from an MBO!

kabayiri

ChiefGrasscutter wrote: »

...
The worst pay rate I've ever seen was a few years ago for some short term contract 'quality engineer' within the auto industry - not a chartered engineer or graduate level requirement but with some sort of established quality/automotive background so probably in their 40's. - the rate £10 per hour - yup that is not a misprint, it is indeed ten pounds per hour and that is less than you can get a gardener for.

Aaahh

Not long ago I attended an interview at short notice for a firm who wanted a very short term contractor to do some penetration/security testing. The short nature of the task appeal

They didn't publish any rate up front. They were putting a new web portal live and were offering not much over £10 per hour. For anyone who doesn't know, this kind of work is quite specialised, even in the computing industry.

When I found out the rate I smiled politely and said that it wasn't for me.

Cue a desperate call a couple of weeks later and I put them in touch with a consultancy outfit who could offer a guy at £1100 a day !

So much for £10 per hour...

Many of the engineers I kept in touch with from Uni went freelance in the end. It's the same in the computing industry if you want any sort of reasonable income.

chewmylegoff

i expect that another problem with recruitment is that quite a lot of people don't really want to move to the far north of scotland.

you would certainly need to at least double my pay to make me even consider going there, and then i would say no.

Andy_L

Pennywise wrote: »

Look at the medical universities. FAR too few places for doctors, dentists & hygienists - the few places have been grossly oversubscribed for decades, but the Uni's havn't matched supply to the demand.

Isn't that becase the BMA/medical colleges deliberatly hold the number of places down to balance incoming students against future consultant posts ensuring a career for all doctors

ultrawomble

Andy_L wrote: »

Isn't that becase the BMA/medical colleges deliberatly hold the number of places down to balance incoming students against future consultant posts ensuring a career for all doctors

Rather the medical schools only take the top and most able students. Their number hasn't changed with the increase in HE which has really only served to increase the number of mediocre students in other courses.

GingerSte

ChiefGrasscutter wrote: »

Myself as an engineer, I think 'Generali' has pretty well summed it up here.
The problem is that seemingly unlike the finance industry if you raise the pay significantly the work and the companies will simply go abroad, to places like India and China. ---hence numbers of staff available at all levels in the UK decreases as the number of companies drops and the options for advancement for staff also drops. Think of working for Rolls Royce..how many other manufacturing companies in the same field could you move to in the UK if you wanted to advance your career - pretty well none your options become limited. Seen the same sort of thing happening the the medical research sector as well.
People/companies seem to be prepared to pay for finance related stuff far more than they are prepared to pay for engineering/science related stuff.....

There are some additional issues:
Often is quite easy to get Graduates, it's what happens after their professional training for 2 years (plus the 2 years 'experience') that is the problem. They have had a great introduction and been wisked from dept to dept often round the world, then at the end they realise they are going to have to what they now feel is boring/drugery work in some dept analysing airflow, oil well boring cuttings, electrical test performance data or whatever........then they leave.
I'm always suspicious when someone says there is a shortage of "engineers" - when we know that in the UK the word engineer is a highly abused term. Do they actually have a shortage of fully qualified Chartered Engineers or is is a case that they have a shortage of some lower qualification grade staff equivalent to a car mechanic.

The worst pay rate I've ever seen was a few years ago for some short term contract 'quality engineer' within the auto industry - not a chartered engineer or graduate level requirement but with some sort of established quality/automotive background so probably in their 40's. - the rate £10 per hour - yup that is not a misprint, it is indeed ten pounds per hour and that is less than you can get a gardener for.

I tend to agree with this (I'm also an engineer - this time Civil/Structural).

A couple of things I would add:

As well as engineers going into things like finance, a lot of (good) companies like to have engineers in their management. While this is a good thing in general (IMO), it means one less engineer engineering.

You have mentioned that engineers get a great introduction, and then have to settle into a job (you mention analysing airflow, in my casue it would be structural analysis or designing/checking connections etc). This "drudgery" is exactly why I got into engineering. I would much rather spend my time doing analysis/design/checking than some of the more managerial posts that you get. I know as my company is trying to "promote" me into a more managerial position as I get chartered. While it means more money, I do feel like I'm losing something.

I would also mention that Loughton Monkey's experience with ICI and the like doesn't surprise me. Engineers are seen as a resource, like most people. We are there to get hired and fired as companies see fit to balance the books. This instability is never good for recruiting and retaining good engineers, as they will leave for greener pastures. While I realise that this is true for almost all professions, it doesn't seem to be true for the management. In fact it sometimes seems to me that companies are run for the sole benefit of the management!

EDITED TO ADD: I don't think lower course fees for engineering courses would be a solution (though I'm not sure what is). As an employer / university, would you rather have someone who specifically chose that subject because they wanted to do it, or chose it because it was cheaper than the other courses?

Pennywise

Andy_L wrote: »

Isn't that becase the BMA/medical colleges deliberatly hold the number of places down to balance incoming students against future consultant posts ensuring a career for all doctors

Then they are getting the balance wrong given the sheer number of overseas qualified medical practitioners we have to "import" to fill medical vacancies.

But even if that is the case, why? Why should there be limited entrants into any profession? Surely all that does is reduce competition and keeps the poor and mediocre staff in work when they really deserve to be kicked out, as would happen in any other profession. If that's happening, it sounds like protectionism to me and I thought that kind of thing was frowned upon.

ultrawomble

Pennywise wrote: »

Then they are getting the balance wrong given the sheer number of overseas qualified medical practitioners we have to "import" to fill medical vacancies.

But even if that is the case, why? Why should there be limited entrants into any profession? Surely all that does is reduce competition and keeps the poor and mediocre staff in work when they really deserve to be kicked out, as would happen in any other profession. If that's happening, it sounds like protectionism to me and I thought that kind of thing was frowned upon.

As I said above, medicine always takes the brightest and most able students. These numbers don't change.

olly300

Pennywise wrote: »

Then they are getting the balance wrong given the sheer number of overseas qualified medical practitioners we have to "import" to fill medical vacancies.

But even if that is the case, why? Why should there be limited entrants into any profession? Surely all that does is reduce competition and keeps the poor and mediocre staff in work when they really deserve to be kicked out, as would happen in any other profession. If that's happening, it sounds like protectionism to me and I thought that kind of thing was frowned upon.

At the moment if the number of medical students who are in training all took roles and stayed in the UK as qualified doctors then there wouldn't be enough Consultants posts and GP practice partner positions to go round.

Some of them would have to spend the rest of their careers as an experienced doctor who can't reach the highest career level.

Foreign doctors who come here already aware of this discrimination against them especially if they aren't from the EU and want to work in certain specialities.