BP 'cannot find skilled workers'

ultrawomble

olly300 wrote: »

Oddly Clapton never argued that.

Really?

this is rubbish; there are many many excellent people with excellent qualifications who are refused colleges places. They number of places have been deliberately restricted to limit the supply since the formationof the NHS.

olly300 wrote: »

I was told years ago by someone in the profession that certain sectors of their own profession and the government want to limit the number of UK trained doctors however this was mainly due to the cost of training doctors.

Fair enough.

epz_2

IMHO their are numerous reasons why there is a limited supply or specialist engineers.

a) It takes time to train up an experienced engineer , the Uni courses are not exactly a soft option for the student and can be substantially more expensive than for the uni to run. Then there is the time in industry needed for the student to learn what they are doing and start paying their way.

b) The periodic churn in the job market, engineering degrees are can be applicable to other industries but the reverse isn't really possible. When you get market contractions that lay off or doesn't hire people then the pool of employees shrinks but it takes a lot of time replenish.

c) The job conditions, a lot of oil jobs still look for people to become offshore certified. There a limit to people physically able and willing to simulate a helicopter crash in the north sea etc. Also a similarly limited pool of people willing to live in places like Aberdeen.

d) The remuneration, for the level of responsibility and ability required there are numerous industries that pay better, offer better prospects and generally an easier life.

There isnt that much that can be done about a or c , b would be tough to fix since its caused by industry wide shifts so that only leaves upping the pay as a motivator.

ultrawomble

epz wrote: »

Also a similarly limited pool of people willing to live in places like Aberdeen.

Don't tell Hamish

CLAPTON

ultrawomble wrote: »

No doubt. But to argue that there's been some conspiracy involving the universities/GMC/governments-of-any-political-persuasion since the formation of the NHS to limit the numbers of UK trained doctors seems frankly ludicrous. I'd love to see some evidence.

OK

tell me other jobs that offer

starting salary at 23 years of about 30k
an AVERAGE salary for GPs of about 100k
hospital consultants can look forward to 200k
effectively a job for life

now remember I'm not talking about exceptional doctors but simply the average

and you're really believe that there is a shortage of good quality applicants?
no, the shortgage in an artifical restriction of supply

eamon

We have had this argument for decades and it still hasn't been adjudicated. Its very strange didn't the CBI have the ear of a "pro" business/industry tory government for nigh on 18 years and nu labour was equally pro business for the 13 years that they were in charge. Thats 31 years of "pro" business/industry government or did I miss something.
I have a nasty feeling that we all collectively connived in making things worse. Starting in no particular order.
Joiners became wood butchers
Plumbers became plastic plumbers
Electricians became sparkies
Chemists became lab grunts
Engineers (all variants) became geeks & nerds
Nurses became !!!!!! stars

And no I don't have any solutions, that would be beyond my pay scale!

Loughton_Monkey

CLAPTON wrote: »

......hospital consultants can look forward to 200k........

A mere pittance compared to their 'private' stuff, but they tolerate it - not least because of the pension.

ultrawomble

CLAPTON wrote: »

OK

tell me other jobs that offer

starting salary at 23 years of about 30k
an AVERAGE salary for GPs of about 100k
hospital consultants can look forward to 200k
effectively a job for life

now remember I'm not talking about exceptional doctors but simply the average

and you're really believe that there is a shortage of good quality applicants?
no, the shortgage in an artifical restriction of supply

I don't know where you've got those numbers from, but they're don't seem to tie in with recognised pay scales:

e.g. basic salary for Foundation Year 1 (your age 23) = £22,412

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=553

P.S. They're also likely to be PAYE.

CLAPTON

ultrawomble wrote: »

I don't know where you've got those numbers from, but they're don't seem to tie in with recognised pay scales:

e.g. basic salary for Foundation Year 1 (your age 23) = £22,412

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=553

P.S. They're also likely to be PAYE.

read the bit about an additional standard salary supplement of 50% for unsocial hours... that makes it about 31k pa standard starting salary

and this is supported by two young doctors personally know to me

ultrawomble

CLAPTON wrote: »

read the bit about an additional standard salary supplement of 50% for unsocial hours... that makes it about 31k pa standard starting salary

and this is supported by two young doctors personally know to me

Ah, I didn't realise that you were giving the maximum available starting salaries depending on working conditions.

Did your contacts also confirm your theories on doctor numbers being institutionally restricted?

gadgetmind

StevieJ wrote: »

Just makes no sense does it? 50% of young people going through university and BP can't find enough

This is a problem we fight on a daily basis, and we'd increase our headcount by 25% almost immediately if we could find enough good grads. Note I'm not saying we need experienced people, just good grads!

Fortunately, we're starting to find good people in Spain, Greece and Italy who find the £24-25k starting salary, with fast escalator, and great benefits, to be very attractive.

Come on Brits, engineering isn't that hard and the pay is actually pretty good!