Car clamped in own space!!

angel_islington

There is no contract. For a contract to be legally enforceable, it has to be, well, legal. I wonder why there have been no instances of a PPC winning in court. Oh yeah, because their actions are illegal. Not to mention morally questionable.

It doesn't matter whether the permit was on display in the windscreen, fallen down into the footwell or stuffed down her trousers.

I'm all for balanced arguments, I have no problem with those whatsoever. It's people getting ripped off that I have a problem with.

I also don't care who you are. However, if you are going to visit the forums to try to persuade people to pay these illegal charges, you are going to get shot down in flames. I'm sure you are aware of this. If you are just looking for attention, it won't happen for long because you will just get banned.

chrisspectre

angel_islington wrote: »

Your problem with these forums is that they are going to put your companies out of business.

As mentioned over and over again, my line of work is far, far removed from the ppc business.
Just calm down a second, take a deep breath and ask yourself seriously has this person really been given good advice? The advice of breaking the law by cutting the clamp, without first verifying that the company acted within it's rights, the OP has been told that they would not have been breaking the law.

The post i made should have been received with thanks because it reflects the true position the OP's daughter found herself in.

chrisspectre

angel_islington wrote: »

There is no contract. For a contract to be legally enforceable, it has to be, well, legal. I wonder why there have been no instances of a PPC winning in court. Oh yeah, because their actions are illegal. Not to mention morally questionable.

It doesn't matter whether the permit was on display in the windscreen, fallen down into the footwell or stuffed down her trousers.

I'm all for balanced arguments, I have no problem with those whatsoever. It's people getting ripped off that I have a problem with.

I also don't care who you are. However, if you are going to visit the forums to try to persuade people to pay these illegal charges, you are going to get shot down in flames. I'm sure you are aware of this. If you are just looking for attention, it won't happen for long because you will just get banned.

Oh...so when someone disagrees on this forum they get banned?
I also have a problem with people getting ripped off, and i have a problem with cowboy clampers. What i am trying to emphasise on this forum is that advice poorly thought out does not help the so called victim but rather, it helps the cowboy clampers.
A very noticeable fact on this forum is that when someone posts a story of how they have become the latest victim, the responses they get are not only misleading and sometimes illegal, but also reflect more venom than common sense.

angel_islington

chrisspectre wrote: »

As mentioned over and over again, my line of work is far, far removed from the ppc business.
Just calm down a second, take a deep breath and ask yourself seriously has this person really been given good advice? The advice of breaking the law by cutting the clamp, without first verifying that the company acted within it's rights, the OP has been told that they would not have been breaking the law.

The post i made should have been received with thanks because it reflects the true position the OP's daughter found herself in.

OK, you don't work for a PPC. I get it.

Personally, I would not advise someone to cut off a clamp or camp out in their car but if I was in that situation, I would be very tempted to do the same thing myself. I certainly would not be letting anyone get away with it. I can see why someone would advise to cut the clamp off though, because a potential charge of criminal damage would hold no weight if the reason the clamp was placed in the first place was illegal. Anyone with half a brain cell would just counter claim.

You may be bored with nothing else to do, but I however, am not, and I have a life to lead. I have said all I need to here. At least until the morning anyway

chrisspectre

angel_islington wrote: »

OK, you don't work for a PPC. I get it.

Personally, I would not advise someone to cut off a clamp or camp out in their car but if I was in that situation, I would be very tempted to do the same thing myself. I certainly would not be letting anyone get away with it. I can see why someone would advise to cut the clamp off though, because a potential charge of criminal damage would hold no weight if the reason the clamp was placed in the first place was illegal. Anyone with half a brain cell would just counter claim.

You may be bored with nothing else to do, but I however, am not, and I have a life to lead. I have said all I need to here. At least until the morning anyway

Me too! Thanks and goodnight!

jkdd77

chrisspectre wrote: »

Not if the permit was issued by the clamping company and the conditions for it's use are on display or known to the resident.

You're completely wrong; if the lease gives the resident the exclusive right to park in a specific space there can be no trespass, and if there is no trespass the victim cannot have consented to the risk of being clamped and therefore the clamping is unlawful.

As for the wholly false suggestion that I am suggesting 'breaking the law' by cutting off the clamp, read section 5 of the Criminal Damage Act, and read the official West Midlands Police Guidance on "criminal damage" to PPC wheelclamps. In brief, a person only commits "criminal damage" if they do not have a 'lawful excuse' for committing the damage, and in this instance the victim almost certainly would have a lawful excuse.
http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/foi/publication-scheme/policies-procedures/policy-MVWC.asp?id=102

"3. Where damage is caused to the clamp, deliberately or recklessly, by a motorist attempting to remove it, this may render the person doing so liable in civil law for any damage caused. This may also amount to an offence of criminal damage. However, if the person took the action because they genuinely thought they had a right to do so, as opposed merely to trying to avoid the fee, then it is likely that such a criminal prosecution would not succeed."

and see these links;
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/8980822.Woolworths_developer_who_cut_off_wheel_clamp_wins_court_battle/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2924617.stm
for examples of where a court has upheld the 'lawful excuse' defence

In any case, there is often no realistic alternative to 'self-help; given that so many clamping firms ignore CCJs with impunity, paying and suing is simply throwing good money after bad, as acknowledge by the Government in their consultation document on banning clamping.

esmerobbo

@chrisspectre


There is no such thing as a justified clamp!!!!! Why do you think the Government is putting an end to it?
The only reason these low life clamp is because once its on the car they have the upper hand. If their argument for car park management is so strong then why don't they ticket and pursue through the courts if not paid.
Why because they will almost always certainly lose! The same as most clamper's lose when they are sued for the return of the clamping fee.
I find it difficult too understand why you believe a clamper can act in such a way and think its justified, yet you defend your friends Park force who have never paid a CCJ.

Your arguments are nonsense the lack of a permit does not make your presence on property you lease trespass. Plus trespass is a civil matter settled by a civil court not some cretin placing a clamp on someone's car.

esmerobbo

@chrisspectre

Still waiting for your 109.5 settled Judgements! Shall we say £50 to charity to the loser?

angel_islington

esmerobbo wrote: »

@chrisspectre

Still waiting for your 109.5 settled Judgements! Shall we say £50 to charity to the loser?

I have a feeling you will be waiting for some time.

chrisspectre

esmerobbo wrote: »

@chrisspectre


There is no such thing as a justified clamp!!!!! Why do you think the Government is putting an end to it?
The only reason these low life clamp is because once its on the car they have the upper hand. If their argument for car park management is so strong then why don't they ticket and pursue through the courts if not paid.
Why because they will almost always certainly lose! The same as most clamper's lose when they are sued for the return of the clamping fee.
I find it difficult too understand why you believe a clamper can act in such a way and think its justified, yet you defend your friends Park force who have never paid a CCJ.

Your arguments are nonsense the lack of a permit does not make your presence on property you lease trespass. Plus trespass is a civil matter settled by a civil court not some cretin placing a clamp on someone's car.

I would like to point out that i have never said that i agree with clamping, or holding a persons vehicle to ransom. That's not my real issue here, my real issue is to point out the reasons why people enlist clamping companies and the rules or procedures that these companies then follow.
On the one hand you have a landowner who is fed up of people parking on his land in spite of signage, and on the other hand you have the driver who has to pay a rather heavy price.
You mention ticketing, which is where i started on this forum attempting to defend it.
On the one hand you hate clampers and advocate ticketing, on the other you hate park direct for ticketing at Ealing broadway.
Now consider this, if park direct steps up it's clamping and towing at Ealing it will be because ticketing doesn't work.
Clamping on the other hand does work. The next time a driver who has been clamped in the past decides to park his car in a place he is not familiar with, he will look closer before doing so.
It seems to me that most of these forums attack one company, if not for it's clamping then for it's ticketting. So what do you want? Total control of what a landowner can do with his land?