end of tenancy dispute

foverton

Ah, that old chestnut... first of, let me thank anyone who takes the time to read this (first post and all), and let me assure you that i've had a thorough read of various threads that appear to relate to my situation, and am seeking opinions more than advice.

I recently ended an 8 year unbroken tenancy, and have been presented with a repair bill from the landlord for £3000 including new carpets, paintwork and loss of rental income for the duration of the remedial work. As the tenancy was started prior to 2007, the deposit was not protected, but the letting agent used by the LL changed after 6th Apr 2007 and we signed a new fixed-term AST. I believe this means that the deposit should have been transferred to a protection scheme, but has yet to be tested in court.

To address the repair bill: we decorated one room (with the LLs permission) and frankly did a very poor job. We were upfront about this, and agreed verbally that if we could not rectify it before the end of the tenancy we would meet the cost. The landlord has subsequently presented us with an (unverified and non-itemised) bill for £3k to replace an 8 year old carpet, and repair one room. This is after we were advised (again verbally) by a representative of the letting agents that they would be recommending full return of the deposit.

To any landlords reading - given that we had offered to meet the costs of this work, and had provided 8 years unbroken rent with no ommisions or late payments, and that the LL spent no money on maintenance throughout the tenancy - can I ask what your position would be if you were presented a property that required redecoration and cleaning after 8 years?

many thanks in advance
Frank

mah_jong

I would not be happy with a dirty house, surely this one is easily sorted out.

As long as the carpet showed ordinary wear and tear (worn patches on well trodden areas) I would think this OK. Eight year is a long time after all. If it was for example covered in milk stains (ugh), chewing gum or patches of oil then I would be looking for that to be replaced.

ihategossips

Hi

Do you still live in the property? If you haven't yet moved out and had a check out report then you would still have time to get that one room redecorated - just ask the LL what colour they would want or try to find the previous colour.

As for the carpet, I don't think he could charge you for the entire replacement unless it was shown on the inventory as your responsibilty and even then he would have to provide you with 3 quotes or allow you to organise a replacement before you left.

As for cleaning, I had a tenant who got in a cheap company who didn't do half the appliances and then decided as they couldn't get their money back from the company then I would just have to accept it as partially cleaned "cos I've already paid".. cleaning isn't something that should really be argued over as Good Cleaning Companies really aren't that expensive and can save a lot of hassel and unnecessary arguments.

BitterAndTwisted

An argument could be made that the expected life of carpets in a rented property is less than eight years. If the landlord maintains that it's ten years (and it would have to have been really decent quality to last that long) you have deprived the landlord of two years of useful life so therefore you should compensate the LL for 20% of the original cost. Ditto the decorating. Quite honestly, after eight years the landlord should have expected to redecorate at their own cost in any case.

foverton

Thanks all,

we are no longer in the property. The carpet that has been replaced was (I believe) new when we moved in, which makes it at least 8 years old when we left, so I'm being charged for a new carpet to replace an 8 year old carpet. I thought that 'betterment' in this situation meant I was not responsible for the whole cost? I am not disputing the fact that the property was left in a worse state than we received it in - I'm just slightly loathe to pay £3000 for repairs when the LL put no money in during our tenancy. I have also never challenged the cleaning bill - I am willing to meet that, as I was unable to arrange it myself in the run up to moving out, and made that clear in discussions leading to the end of the tenancy. It feels a lot like I am being charged for 8 years wear and tear on top of the cost I've already agreed to meet. The LL is also after an extra month's rent to cover the period after our tenancy ended - and has threatened me with court action to get it

chappers

The LL cannot ask for any betterment of the property and can only charge for damages not due to fair "wear and tear".
So say for example the house was freshly painted 8 years ago and it is deemed that the life of the paint work is 10 years and your damage causes it to be repainted then he could only expect to charge you for 2/10ths of the cost of redecoration.
Obviously these timescales are pretty circumspect especially with regards to the carpets as the servicable life of a £4 a metre cheapo carpet would be completely different to a £70 a metre Axminster.
In 8 years I would consider the odd spill and general discolouration to be fair wear and tear and as model tenants I would have expected your LL to have just given back your deposit as both the decoration and carpet are close to the end of their life.

Your ex LL has no chance of charging you for rent beyond the end of your contract.
What condition was the property in when you took it over and was there a dual signed inventory, stating the condition of the property.
Was your deposit protected? If so then raise adispute with the protection company and if not point this out to the LL and inform him that you will be taking him to court on this matter.

BitterAndTwisted

WRITE to the landlord pointing out that they are seeking betterment by trying to charge for the full costs of replacement of carpeting and decorating. You are NOT responsible for any additional rent due to a void because the landlord is undertaking refurbishment work to the property. Offer to pay for the cleaning if you think it's reasonable. Let him take you to court if he pleases. Do not be intimidated as I think he will lose. Give him 14 days to return the balance of your deposit. If he doesn't start proceedings in the Small Claims Court. I think the cost of doing so will cost you less than £100

abankerbutnotafatcat

I expect a property back clean but with wear and tear proportionate to the length of the tenancy. As Bitter & Twisted says - 8 years is good going for carpet in a rental property. I don't have carpet but if I did I think i'd buy a cheapish one (but still attractive and fit for purpose) and then expect to replace it every 5 years or so on the basis that in a rental property it's better to have a clean/new carpet than a good quality one. I am just happy to have reasonable, considerate tenants who one can have a decent dialogue with.

Sharon87

If he takes you to court he certainly wont win!

He can't charge you the extra rent. How much was your deposit? I assume he's kept the whole lot? He can't ask for more than your deposit is worth I believe. well he's certainly trying. I would write a letter to him explaining that you are not responsible for the month's rent he's asking for, and as above you are not responsible for replacing old with new, but are prepared to pay a bit of the cost.

I would also ask if he protected your deposit, since the latest AST was started after 7th April 2007, so he's legally obliged to protect your deposit, and if he hasn't you have the option of taking him to court to get it back!

foverton

Thanks again for all your replies - you have confirmed my initial understanding of my position, partuicularly regarding the costs and betterment.

Sharon87- the initial deposit was £850, so the LL is seeking an additional £2150 on top of this

Chappers - the property had been decorated when we moved in. The deposit was not initially protected as the tenancy started in 2003, but it was not transferred to a protection scheme when we signed a new AST in 2008-9 (I cannot remermber the exact date, but it was after 2007). I don't recall ever signing an inventory, and if I did I certainly did not receive a copy for my records.

abankerbutnotafatcat - what I find particularly upsetting is that throughout the tenancy we had a good relationship, speaking on the phone every few months and swapping Christmas cards, bypassing the letting agents when we had issues with their service, and then the first I hear of the issue is a letter threatening me with court action. I appreciate it is an emotive issue (the property is the LLs first and only rental, and his former residency), but I think it could have been resolved amicably over the phone - after all, the only reason I left was the LL tried (and failed) to sell the property!

chappers

foverton wrote: »

Chappers - the property had been decorated when we moved in. The deposit was not initially protected as the tenancy started in 2003, but it was not transferred to a protection scheme when we signed a new AST in 2008-9 (I cannot remermber the exact date, but it was after 2007). I don't recall ever signing an inventory, and if I did I certainly did not receive a copy for my records.

Your LL has two problems here
1) He will find it very hard to defend a court claim from you if he doesn't have an inventory, he may have a chance if the property was newly decorated and carpeted before you moved in and he has reciepts to prove it but still unlikely to win.

2) he has not protected your deposit as required by law and so will equally have no legal claim to any of it and in fact could be sued for 3 times the deposit.