Difficult Problem, Cry for Help

SunnyJane

Wig wrote:

Roger, your assessment is how I read it too

but she gave some meter readings implying the following

date 1
house 9000
upstairs 6000

date 2
house 9000 + 1149 = 10149
upstairs 6000 + 730 = 6730

downstairs useage date 1 - date 2 = 419

But what I want is for the OP to explain exactly what happened, did she check her bills were appropriate to the difference of the 2 meters as the landlord told her to do?
Did she tell the supplier about the difference between the meters, when they came to read the meter?
What readings did she give when she supplied correction figures?
What were the meter readings when she moved in?
Details of the bills intervening and the last bill and the meter readings today.

Only when we know the full story can we give advice.

Dear Wig, to answer your questions;

1. I checked upstair meter reading 4 times in the past 2.5 years, though not regularly.

2. I phoned Powergen and told them the differnce of two meter readings. However, Powergen refused to only bill for the difference. As all energy companies employ their own contracted meter reading companies to read meters for them and meter reading guy usually comes without tenants/residents knowledge. I only met the guy last week accidently when he checked the main meter and I explained to him that I should only pay for the difference. He replied that his company is only contracted by Powergen, npower, etc. but neither British Gas nor Scottish Power, etc. Therefore, he has no responsibility to take upstair flat's meter reading when it is a different energy supplier.

3. I have never supplied to Powergen any corrected meter reading. They usually bill me according to their meter reading, I think.

4-5: Already answered in the above reply.

Wig

roger56 wrote:

Wig Tripled - three heads are definately better than one on this:
Another approach could be:

Does that seem a logical plan or have I missed something?

Roger, I agree with you that would be the most sensible way to go forward with this, assuming energywatch advice line were to agree.

If we take the premis that each flat occupier is entitled to their own gas supply, The upstairs flat has not had a problem, he has paid for his gas.

Downstairs on the other hand has paid for gas not used by her. It is logically simple to look at the situation and say Powergen should refund for Gas they did not supply.

But I think they will put up a fight. I also think it is the best solution because we are dealing with one company for the whole 2.5 years period. And if they don't agree OFGEM should be able to force them to pay up.

Wig

SunnyJane wrote:

After having read all above replies, can I conclude yours as;

1. Powergen has NO problem/fault whatsoever in my case;
2. Those gas companies like British Gas, Scottish Power, etc. have NEVER supplied gas to upstair flat;.

Hello Jane,

Not necessarily, Roger came up with a good way forward, and see my reply to Roger (post above this). However Powergen will not see it this way and will fight. Hopefully Energywatch will see the sense in this approach.

I would still like you to quote me at least one of your recent gas bills in full please, I'm now sure you are right and the worst case scenario has happened, but lets look at one of your old bills to be sure.

Bill dates xx/xx/xx - yy/yy/yy
Previous reading -
Present reading -
units used -
Kwh used - xxxx @ yy pence, xxxx @ zz pence
Total for bill inc VAT = £

You need to contact energywatch on their helpline: 0845 906 0708
or possibly cheaper (depending on your phone co.) alternative geographic numbers:
0207 7998340 London
02920 647089 Cardiff
0121 200 7231 Northampton call centre
0191 244 2892 Birmingham office

And there is the option of the small claims court to resolve the problem. If you were going to use this route you would probably need your Landlord's letter or in person, and a gas engineers report. You would also need a point of law to base your case on ....can't think of one off the top of my head sorry....

roger56

SunnyJane

In one post you stated that you have explained the situation to Powergen and they refused to only bill the difference.

I would put the situation to them again, but in writing (keep copies):
- point out you are renting the property
- point out how the two meters work and that the landlord has explained this to you and the fact you need to bill the difference - include copy of any written evidence you have of this.
- highlight that you are paying for gas you have not used, and that there is a portion of gas useage at the prperty that is double billed to different companies.
- give Powergen a last chance to help you resolve what is an unfair and unreasonable situation, but let them know you will otherwise be complaining to EnergyWatch.

I will say, strictly it's not Powergens fault, and I also feel you have a case to insist the Landlord supports you in sorting this issue out. Through no fault of your own, you seem to have inherited a very unusual gas metering problem - that's down to the Landlord, but it's costing you.
However for now try to keep everyone on your side.

To be honest, I think EnergyWatch are going to be the best mediator in this case and the energy companies MUST respond to EnergyWatch, whereas they will probably "fob you off" as you have already found.

Good Luck, keep us posted on progress.

tripled

I think you'll find Powergen won't bill the difference - hopefully Gal will put her head in at some stage but it isn't poosible to bill for a difference between two meters on the computer systems. Therefore they will stick to the legal position, which is that they supply the meter, and everyone who lives in the property over 18 can be held jointly or soley responsible for the gas usage. It's the same situation when 5 students live in a property - if your the one named on the bill, and someone else hasn't paid their share, bad luck. Energywatch will give advice as well as take complaints, I would say first ring Powergen, they will probably say they can't help you but hey, you tried. Then phone energywatch and explain the situation. They will need to liase with the other 3 suppliers, Transco will probably need to be called in to verify the facts, then the monies paid will be refunded to the guy upstairs.

However, by the same vein as the guy upstairs is responsible for paying his share of the utilities, the other approach you could take is to speak to the chap upstairs and if he refuses to help sort it out, put it in writing and if still no joy threaten to take legal action against him to recover the balances owed. Again, you would need some sort of confirmation from Transco confirming that the upstairs meter has been billing for gas already paid on the main meter. Probably a last resort as it's never good to fall out with the neighbours!

Biggles

Your neighbour owes you nothing, he's paid for his gas as billed by his utility company(ies). OK, it may be they shouldn't have been billing him, but that's hardly his fault.

The solution has to be by tackling Powergen and the neighbour's current supplier to sort out this mess and then to separate the meters. But I would suggest you get the landlord to do it, as he got you in this mess by giving you this cockerel-and-bull story (it won't let me say c*ck-and-bull!!) about using the difference between the two meters and he does own the property, after all. Kick some bottom!

Of course, as far as I can see you do only have the landlord's word for it that the second meter is fed by the first; maybe you've both been paying the correct bills all the time? :-(

masonic

Biggles wrote:

Your neighbour owes you nothing, he's paid for his gas as billed by his utility company(ies).

I disagree. IMHO, it seems that the neighbour's meter is a red herring. I really can't see this going any other way than the OP's meter being used to bill the whole property and complete refunds being issued for the spurious 'upstairs' supply. It's just a question of how the OP claims the money she has been paying for the gas that her neighbour has used.

Mikeyorks

All potential solutions are a bit hypothetical - unless you prove that one meter is actually feeding the other?

Suggest you get the landlord to prove / disprove that (although your posts infer they're close - so you should be able to see the join?) and put work in hand to de-Siamese them if they are joined. And a monetary solution should flow from that work - as it should become clear who's been supplying what to whom?

tripled

Get Transco to inspect it and certify one meter is feeding the other before any 'de-siamesing' or anything else is done to alter the current set up of the meters.

With regards to a case against the other tenant, the op should have a case.

For example, say you have been paying bills to Powergen for 9 months. You get a letter from British Gas saying you owe 200 quid. If Transco confirm British Gas was the supplier, you are then legally obliged to pay them, irrespective of what you had paid to Powergen or whether or not they refunded it.

This is a similar situation, the upstairs tenant has been paying bills to the wrong companies for a meter that shouldn't be registered. Once confirmed, he would be legally obliged to pay the correct company and the op could reclaim the charges she had paid on his behalf. However she would have to have irrefutable proof first.

dc

Just to throw in my tuppence,
If this is a house conversion, then the original main (total) meter would have been the only chargeable meter registered with the then utility, presumably BG.

You need to find out when and who installed the second meter when conversion into flats occurred.
Maybe this was never meant to have readings supplied to the utility ( presumably at a time BG was the only supplier), but for the tennants to split one bill on % useage.

Who reads the meters?

I feel the situation could have arisen from the fact that the upstairs "mser?" wanted to get gas cheaper, and so unnescessarily registered the partial meter with the other companies, and thus started dual payments for the same gas?
After all they are just a call centers dealing with numbers.

Landlord seriously needs to get involved to sort.