Help! subsidence,insurance & conveyancing

cantworkitout

JingleJangle wrote: »

Where is this property OP? Is it in London? London is renowned for subsidence. My house had historical movements. That doesn't mean it won't move again. It is not the conveyancer's responsibility to point out details in the survey report, it is your responsibility to make sure you get the report appropriate to your needs and worries, and to read it yourself. I doubt the conveyancer received the old reports until after the sale went through to be honest.

Hello again and thanks
No it is in Berkshire having just read those reports ( see previous post)
"the area is notorious for peat deposits" ...that makes me nervous i am not sure what that means but it doesn't sound to clever?
Wish I knew that before ...

G_M

cantworkitout wrote: »

....
2) when you fill out the condition of the house to sell, don't you have to state if there has ever been subsidence? I never saw any paper work from the conveyancer that included this should I have?
3) Is the conveyancer allowed to let my sale go through without sending/showing me the histrionical reports regarding subsidence first?

2) You are thinking of the HIP. HIPs were abolished (as you pointed out yourself several posts ago!). Buyers have to rely on their own survey, search, etc

3) As I said above ("I guess.....") your conveyancer probobly did not receive these historical reports until after the sale was complete.

You have still not told us what the reports are that mention subsidence:
a) who wrote them?
b) what date were they written?
c) who were they written for? (the clients name should be on them)
d) what are they? Structural Survey? Structural Engineers Report? Insurance claim? Letter written by seller's mum to his dad?........

KateLiana27

Unfortunately a valuation is for the bank, and only protects their interest. When you get a homebuyer's report or full structural survey, that's when the surveyor is working for you, and you have recourse against them if they are negligent. Not so with a valuation.

Whoever you got your mortgage with ripped you off with the valuation. They shouldn't cost £500, but I know that certain banks do charge this and more. Daylight robbery. Our bank just charged £180 (bumped up to a homebuyer's for just £200 more), which is about what it should be. Not much you can do now, but for anyone else reading this, find out the bank's valuation cost before applying for the mortgage!

I am pretty sure the conveyancer only got the old surveys after completion.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Getting to what you can do now: I would call up an independent structural engineer and get them to do a thorough review of your house. Hopefully this will bring good news and give you peace of mind, but if not, at least you can do what you can to solve any problems at an early stage. This is particularly so if you're already getting cracks. Call in the experts now.

cantworkitout

G_M wrote: »

2) You are thinking of the HIP. HIPs were abolished (as you pointed out yourself several posts ago!). Buyers have to rely on their own survey, search, etc

3) As I said above ("I guess.....") your conveyancer probobly did not receive these historical reports until after the sale was complete.

You have still not told us what the reports are that mention subsidence:
a) who wrote them?
b) what date were they written?
c) who were they written for? (the clients name should be on them)
d) what are they? Structural Survey? Structural Engineers Report? Insurance claim? Letter written by seller's mum to his dad?........

Hi and thanks for replying , your mum/ dad comment made me chuckle!

Document one.
a) Project managment Services company.
b)October 2001.
c) The home owner ( not sure I should name them personally on a forum?)
d) Insurance Claim.
Document two.
a) Civil and structural engineers
b) July 2009
c) Home Owners ( whom we brought from )
d) Report of structural inspection.

cantworkitout

KateLiana27 wrote: »

Unfortunately a valuation is for the bank, and only protects their interest. When you get a homebuyer's report or full structural survey, that's when the surveyor is working for you, and you have recourse against them if they are negligent. Not so with a valuation.

Whoever you got your mortgage with ripped you off with the valuation. They shouldn't cost £500, but I know that certain banks do charge this and more. Daylight robbery. Our bank just charged £180 (bumped up to a homebuyer's for just £200 more), which is about what it should be. Not much you can do now, but for anyone else reading this, find out the bank's valuation cost before applying for the mortgage!

I am pretty sure the conveyancer only got the old surveys after completion.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Getting to what you can do now: I would call up an independent structural engineer and get them to do a thorough review of your house. Hopefully this will bring good news and give you peace of mind, but if not, at least you can do what you can to solve any problems at an early stage. This is particularly so if you're already getting cracks. Call in the experts now.

Hello thanks for replying.
I have a horrible feeling my financial adviser probably said it was £500 but took half in charges? I think i will re read her emails correspondence to see what it does say , perhaps i have re course there?

Do you know how much it costs to get a structural engineer?
also now that i have seen these documents am I legally obliged to inform my insurance company/ mortgage lender? ( same company)
And does it make my insurance voided? even though i never knew when i took it out?

KateLiana27

It will not make your insurance void as you answered the questions honestly to the best of your knowledge at the time. I'm not sure who you will have to inform now you have the information in your possession - hopefully someone else can help out with this one.

The mortgage company may well have charged £500 for the valuation - I've seen several posts on here where it has been at this level. It's shocking but not that unusual unfortunately.

I imagine the structural engineer cost will be in the region of a full structural survey (£600-£800, depending on the size of the property) but I'd call around to get estimates first.

cantworkitout

KateLiana27 wrote: »

It will not make your insurance void as you answered the questions honestly to the best of your knowledge at the time. I'm not sure who you will have to inform now you have the information in your possession - hopefully someone else can help out with this one.

The mortgage company may well have charged £500 for the valuation - I've seen several posts on here where it has been at this level. It's shocking but not that unusual unfortunately.

I imagine the structural engineer cost will be in the region of a full structural survey (£600-£800, depending on the size of the property) but I'd call around to get estimates first.

Thank you for your help

G_M

cantworkitout wrote: »

Included.
....3) Report of Structural Inspection dated July 2004.(sates occupants have lived here for two years so assume they got it checked with their insurance after moving in)
Conclusions and recommendations of the above
a) The cracks and distortion are considered to represent longstanding movement and there is no evidence of recent and progressive differential foundation movement.
b) Internal cracks generally result from shrinkage where different materials meet.
c) the following work should be undertaken in conjuction with redecoration ;
i) filling cracks with pollyfiller and cross lining walls with heavy duty lining paper.
ii) installing mastic sealant to party wall brickwork joints in the fromt elevation.
iii) it would also be prudent to install a ridge lacing beam 100x 25cm softwood nailed to each rafter and install eaves vents.Do you knowif this was done?

Second Document.
Insurance claim- subsidence dated October 2001.
Initial technical recommendations .
None we are satisfied that the property is stable and no further measures are required.
Although in with this is does state that no 1 has been re built and no 3 has been underpinned ( I know no 9 has since been underpinned also)
( we are in the middle of these)

I'm not really sure why you are concerned. Both these documents appear to say there is no subsidence.

shar46y

cantworkitout wrote: »

Included.
1) Land Reg
2) Energy Performance certificate
3) Report of Structural Inspection dated July 2004.(sates occupants have lived here for two years so assume they got it checked with their insurance after moving in)
Conclusions and recommendations of the above
a) The cracks and distortion are considered to represent longstanding movement and there is no evidence of recent and progressive differential foundation movement.
b) Internal cracks generally result from shrinkage where different materials meet.
c) the following work should be undertaken in conjuction with redecoration ;
i) filling cracks with pollyfiller and cross lining walls with heavy duty lining paper.
ii) installing mastic sealant to party wall brickwork joints in the fromt elevation.
iii) it would also be prudent to install a ridge lacing beam 100x 25cm softwood nailed to each rafter and install eaves vents.

Second Document.
Insurance claim- subsidence dated October 2001.
Initial technical recommendations .
None we are satisfied that the property is stable and no further measures are required.
Although in with this is does state that no 1 has been re built and no 3 has been underpinned ( I know no 9 has since been underpinned also)
( we are in the middle of these)

OP - I am no expert, but both reports say that there is no further movement. Surely that, plus the fact that you would have honestly answered that you knew nothing of history of subsidence, will mean your insurance will still cover you (someone please confirm!). Although you will probably have to disclose to your insurers now that this information has come to light, which may or may not have an effect on future cover (higher premiums/excess/worse).

I echo others' comments that £500 for a valuation is extortionate!:mad: You should be able to get a homebuyers report for that, even via the building society!

ruggedtoast

In my experience the presence of subsidence and underpinning in the neighbouring properties (one of which fell down?) would be enough to put you in the realms of non standard insurance policies.

All high street policies ask you to confirm there has been no damage to your property from movement. How they couch this is different and there are some that are ambiguously worded enough to suggest that they wouldn't exclude historical movement that is longstanding and otherwise benign in the eyes of a surveyor.

Nevertheless invariably the moment you call the call centre and mention any kind of movement, longstanding or otherwise, they practically put the phone down on you.

The historical movement in your property was probably caused by the subsidence in the adjoining properties, which is currently resolved. In the (hopefully unlikely) eventuality you had to claim for subsidence you could reasonably say you were unaware of subsidence in your property when you took out the policy.

If you call them and say that you are now aware of historical movement that existed before you took out the policy they may void your policy, or refer it to the underwriters. You could keep quiet, but I couldnt quantify what the probability is that they could find out you eventually knew, or whether they could argue you had a legal requirement to tell them.

Many high street policies will not offer cover for nearby subsidence. If they wouldnt cover you because of that you need to get another policy immediately, all underpinning nearby would have come up on your searches and therefore make it very easy for your insurer to wriggle out of paying for a claim.

Specialist insurers like Adrian Flux offer subsidence cover for at risk properties, I think Aviva do as well, and UIA if you're in a trade union.

I am somewhat surprised the problems in the neighbouring properties didnt ring alarm bells for you, they would seriously concern a lot of buyers who would be looking at fairly comprehensive buildings surveys before proceeding, obviously at least two other people before you were.

None of this will really add to the value of your house, but you're stuck with it and the other surveys seem to indicate you're property is stable so you may as well sort out your insurance and concentrate on enjoying living there.