Universal credit = more riots.

Pete111

This isn't about politics or cuts that haven't even started to bite properly yet.

This is about opportunism, softly softly policing and the fact that a significant minority of our society have for decades been drifting further away from what the majority would consider a civilised way of life...despite vast sums of money being ineffectually thrown at them.

The left will not will gain from this. When people get genuinely scared (as many now are) then suddenly Human rights and happy clappy policies go out the window very quickly indeed

SingleSue

interstellaflyer wrote: »

£500 a week is £26000 a year and no tax or ni to deduct either, I work bloody hard for a measerly £12000 a year and that's before tax and ni, our total household income is around £17000, we get very little help from the state, it makes me sick, no wonder these scum want to keep poping out ferral sprogs, ok the job market is tough but there are jobs out there if you try hard enough, problem is these people don't want to try and many are just un-employable anyway due to their attitude and lack of respect, for some of them the kindest thing would have been to put them down at birth.

Can I just point out the following

Not all those on benefits are scum
Not all those on benefits pop out babies willy nilly
Not all those on benefits want to be on benefits, some are there by circumstances (illness, caring duties, made redundant etc)
Not all those on benefit have a lack of morals or respect for others.
Not all of those on benefits have feral children.

tomterm8

I think it comes down to 20% + youth unemployment.

If you are an unemployed youngster, there is next to no chance of getting a job. You have nothing to lose. If you go to prison it is probably not worse than where you are anyway.

We have had historically quite low riot and civil disturbance rates in the last thirty years because people have had something to lose if they take part in this kind of disorder.

Of course, once it kicks off, other criminals will take part. But a huge swathe of the population - whether middle class, or working class - are angry that they are getting no help at the time they need it most.

More or better benefits are not really the answer, because most people on benefits don't want to be on benefits - they want to be in a job. They want to produce stuff, and be a worthwhile part of the society. This is what labour got wrong: not better benefits. We need more work.

System

tomterm8 wrote: »

We need more work.

I'm an employer. Give me one good reason why I should take on a rioter or a looter.

jojo1964

Clifford_Pope wrote: »

I'm an employer. Give me one good reason why I should take on a rioter or a looter.

Good point, those convicted will find it difficult, if not impossible to find a job now, although those convicted who already work might lose their jobs, freeing up a few jobs for those who want to work.

TedButler

MacMickster wrote: »

Benefits of £26,000 per annum with no tax or national insurance to pay? This is equivalent to a wage of around £35,000 - not too far short of having to pay higher rate tax.

There should be riots if benefits are not reduced to a lower level than this. Benefits are meant to be a safety net for those who are unable (either temporarily or permanently) to go out and work for a living. They should not provide anyone with a better standard of living than the majority who pay taxes to fund those benefits.

In London rents are so high now that most on low incomes get housing benefit.

There is no point someone saying "I work really hard for less than 500 a week."

In London some families get 4K a week rent alone. Not many get this amount I know but there are many getting 1 or 2 grand per week rent alone then other benefits on top.

When the 500 total ben cap comes in many will be forced to move away from London.

This social unrest is nothing compared with what is to come as our country runs out of money.

tomterm8

Clifford_Pope wrote: »

I'm an employer. Give me one good reason why I should take on a rioter or a looter.

I'm not asking you to, mate. Most of these people are basically now unemployable.

I am asking you to take on normal, law abiding kids. There are 750,000 unemployed kids in the country. Most of them would be keen and good workers if given the chance, and the skills.

We need government policies to make it possible for employers to hire these law abiding people and make money from their labour.

jojo1964

tomterm8 wrote: »

I'm not asking you to, mate. Most of these people are basically now unemployable.

I am asking you to take on normal, law abiding kids. There are 750,000 unemployed kids in the country. Most of them would be keen and good workers if given the chance, and the skills.

We need government policies to make it possible for employers to hire these law abiding people and make money from their labour.

Minimum wage for youngsters allows this already

tomterm8

jojo1964 wrote: »

Minimum wage for youngsters allows this already

Then why is youth employment at 20%? And don't tell me because it is people don't want to work. Youth employment wasn't anywhere near that when I left university. It wasn't like that five years ago, either. Hundreds of thousands of people don't suddenly decide not to work, for no reason.

StevieJ

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

These riots had nothing to do with politics, cuts, the economy, or any other cause, and everything to do with criminal looting.

They spread because the little scumbags saw they could get away with it as the police response was shockingly pathetic.

Oh, and criminals appeared from all classes, not just those on benefits.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8694655/UK-riots-grammar-school-girl-is-accused-of-theft.html

I will refer you to a post by Kenny, on another thread, IMHO the definitive post on this topic, a lot of this mayhem will be for the buzz not the cash, similar to football hooliganism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/10/liverpool-riots-mob-mayhem