New Enterprise Allowance scheme - My story

tomterm8

This is all quite theoretical.

My personal opinion is that what other people do -as long as it's legal- doesn't affect me very much.

I've spent most of my life self-employed. Part of the learning I've got from that experience - both of successes and business failures - is to use every opportunity you have to get ahead. If you are eligible for benefits I don't see any reason not to take them.

On the proviso that you're working hard to build your business, and your long (or short, or medium) term aim is to become self funding.

I think it's better for people to be doing something rather than nothing with their lives and so I am wholly in support of self-employment if it is a choice between self-employment and unemployment. Most people decay during unemployment losing skills and social networks and becoming less happy and less healthy, whereas self-employment forces you to do something which makes you immediately more employable if nothing else.

Stevenb

I am afraid its not theoretical at all , its the reality of 21st century Britain , Andy2013 hits the nail on the head, to many people take it as a given that they will just take money where they can, and it affects the rest of us because someone has to pay for it , its not free.

There are certain posters on this forum that clearly adore benefits and they are not coming across well .

I think it's better for people to be doing something rather than nothing with their lives and so I am wholly in support of self-employment if it is a choice between self-employment and unemployment.

This is a totally sensible statement but how many are still going 1 year or 2 years down the line, still taking HB CTB WTC and anything else they can ( "because im allowed" ) and still not making NMW to stay under the benefits threshold.

This is not morally right and can potentially go on for years whilst the person only ever earns £40 a week having there rent paid for.

TrueBlue1965 will argue this till there blue in the face but lets see how long it takes them to get of HB and benefits completely .

Andy2013

Lets end this now because it will just go on forever and I think the 40-50 million non benefits receiving workers in this country will agree with you stevenb , but lets call a truce .

We have all different morals and opinions.

dktreesea

Andy2013 wrote: »

Lets end this now because it will just go on forever and I think the 40-50 million non benefits receiving workers in this country will agree with you stevenb , but lets call a truce .

We have all different morals and opinions.

Not too sure about those numbers . There's only just over 30 million people working in Britain.

Statistics just released from HMRC for the year ended 5.4.2013, the latest figures available, https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/
attachment_data/file/315334/cwtc_awards.pdf show that only 4.62 million families (1.48million out of work families, and 2.14 million in work families) received tax credits. While the statistics refer to "families" throughout, figure 2.3 suggests single people with no children claiming WTC only are included in the figures. Counting the couples as two people, the total number of people benefiting from WTC and/or CTC is only 6.7 million people. Given that 1.915 million of those are people out of work (1.053 mill singles plus 2 * 431,000 couples) that leaves only 4.8 million people claiming themselves directly or benefiting from a claim via being a spouse. Out of a work force of over 30 million people.

It does make me think, given the median income is only £27,000 per annum or thereabouts, yet less than a sixth of working people claim any sort of tax credits, that you may well be right, Andy. There would appear to be a significant number of workers out there who could claim but choose not to bother.

I'm mystified, given such a small number of claimants, why all the money was poured into UC when it is quite clear that one of the main groups claiming, and therefore being targeted (clear from other HMRC statistics for taxable income for the self employed) is the low income self employed, and they could have introduced the minimum income floor with a minimum of fuss and cost, based on data alread held and made available by HMRC, i.e. the self assessment returns of the self employed.

I would have rather seen NEA available for the first year, a far more reasonable period than just the first 6 months, given the seasonal nature of many businesses, and the MIF introduced from the beginning of whichever tax year was appropriate way back when all this started, and only for businesses that had been up and running for over 12 months. They could have had it in place for last year, let alone this year.

Andy2013

Your links not working but I agree my figures were s***

It does make me think, given the median income is only £27,000 per annum or thereabouts, yet less than a sixth of working people claim any sort of tax credits, that you may well be right, Andy. There would appear to be a significant number of workers out there who could claim but choose not to bother.

My point exactly, benefits are available to many more than can have them , I myself could probably claim some but I don't need them, I can fund my own life style and its wrong for me to claim anything " just because I can "

I hated being on JSA even though it was a short time as my parents did not claim benefits and my grandparents before that had no choice but to work hard, but for some families it becomes a way of life

This link is not about benefits , they get a bashing on lots more threads on this forum , lets get of the subject now because its getting tedious

tomterm8

Stevenb wrote: »

I am afraid its not theoretical at all , its the reality of 21st century Britain , .

It's entirely theoretical. Nothing we can say here will have any effect on benefit policy and anyone who really intends to exploit the system and not work will do so... whether they do it through one means or another.

Each of us can only control our own life choices.

Stevenb

It's entirely theoretical. Nothing we can say here will have any effect on benefit policy and anyone who really intends to exploit the system and not work will do so... whether they do it through one means or another.

I'm not trying to change policies I am simply pointing out that a certain portion of people will work the system to there advantage ensuring they do the very minimum needed, and for those of us working hard and paying tax on our hard earned profits we have to pay for those peoples benefits , they don't come from nowhere and its not theory its total reality .

If you want to play the benefits game you can be self employed and earn £300 a month you wont pay tax , but will get full HB and CTB paid , the £300 is in your pocket.

To cover that rent and council tax would mean possibly £700-800 a month increase , just to pay the money straight back to someone else

The system is not fair for those whom are genuinely trying to make it work , it favours those who cant be assed and ultimately the economy wont be a better place for those people being self employed because they are giving nothing back to the state, just taking money out of it.

I feel very strongly about this because it goes against everything I was brought up to be, and for those who wish to argue the point its clear where your morals lie.

tomterm8

Stevenb wrote: »

The system is not fair for those whom are genuinely trying to make it work ,

As far as I know everyone's entitled to the same benefits?Someone who is genuinely trying to make things work will stop being entitled to the benefits because they're actually better off than they were on the benefits?

It's complicated, I guess, because there are actually a few people who are better off on benefits. Predominantly single parents.

But for the vast majority of people being on WTC isn't exactly a brilliant existence. Better than JSA, of course. But you have to prove you are working 30 hours a week (or less for some people) and if you can't do that you have to pay the money back.

NEA is a time limited benefit. You need to prove that you have a viable business plan. Once you've signed off you need to prove you are carrying out the business plan to keep on getting the money.

dktreesea

Andy2013 wrote: »

Your links not working but I agree my figures were s***

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/child-and-working-tax-credits-statistics-finalised-annual-awards-2012-to-2013

I think I must have linked directly to the pdf. This link should work.

dktreesea

tomterm8 wrote: »

As far as I know everyone's entitled to the same benefits?Someone who is genuinely trying to make things work will stop being entitled to the benefits because they're actually better off than they were on the benefits?

It's complicated, I guess, because there are actually a few people who are better off on benefits. Predominantly single parents.

But for the vast majority of people being on WTC isn't exactly a brilliant existence. Better than JSA, of course. But you have to prove you are working 30 hours a week (or less for some people) and if you can't do that you have to pay the money back.

NEA is a time limited benefit. You need to prove that you have a viable business plan. Once you've signed off you need to prove you are carrying out the business plan to keep on getting the money.

All true, but we are currently caught up politically in a war with two completely opposing ideas, and the low income self employed are very much in the front line of fire.

On the one side you have the conservatives, firmly on the side of the tax payer, who want everyone to have to work - and to earn enough from that work - to survive, and are prepared to limit support to those who don't toe the party line. UKIP is just a more extreme version of this standpoint.

On the other you have the Lib Dems, traditionally to the left of Labour but now completely discredited if the latest polls are anything to go by, who believe we should support the poor no matter what. An echo of Blair's personal belief, that it is better to have a full time self employed person working all year even if all they earn is £1 profit a year, than someone sitting around unemployed doing nothing. Even if there is no financial gain for the taxpayer.

Sadly for the poor, and particularly the self employed poor, it rather looks like the conservatives are going to win this one. There are simply far more taxpayers than there are poor people.

The low income self employed are the current government's experiment. They want to see what happens when they limit support to this group.