New Enterprise Allowance scheme - My story

Stevenb

As for new business making money and should they be allowed to claim Housing Benefit, Tax credits, ect. If your doing 30+ hours and can show your acounts. Then, your doing what is needed to make the claims. You can be asked to prove what hours your doing if it is believed that those hours are not being worked. Then, you can be asked to prove what your doing in your business though your books. Those are the rules. Dont knock the system in a dog eat dog economy. For many, its about surviving but with the dream of making it big one day..

Those are indeed the rules but we all know WTC don't ever ask for proof as they handle millions of claims a year .

A fundamental part of any business is making money and by being on HB it means your rent and CT are tax paid for giving you a lower incentive to work hard, its controversial and someone will get upset by me saying this but its true and the system will allow you to earn very small amounts meaning you can claim WTC to pay you 50 quid a week also, and people can then go around giving it the big un saying they are running there own business.

Not really how it should be done , but that's how the system allows people to be nowadays.

Until your off benefits altogether then your not truly self employed and anyone is welcome to argue this one with me but claiming HB CTB or WTC is all a benefit and no better than being on JSA.

Today is a very significant day in the UK ( if you don't know why your a ####) but our grandparents would not have been getting benefits, they would have worked there fingers raw to do the best for there families.

Andy2013

Ouuuuuuch !!! that's going to upset someone, but I agree with almost all of it.

If I had HB paying my £800 rent and CTB paying my £130 council tax I most likely would not have been so determined to make money like I have and as I said a couple of times I cut all my ties with HB and CTB in January last year so that I had real time goals to reach and in April last year we moved to a new build 2 bed house , im not bragging but im damn proud of what I have achieved in 18 months and if I was still on HB I am sure I would still be living in a damp poxy studio apartment earning just enough to paly the game.

Its not realistic for everyone I know that but like steve says the older generation were a different breed and I want to be like them.

ps , dktreesea thanks for your kind words its going to be mega even more to work for know

ceri123

Sorry to change track on the latest posts of this thread but I've been directed to this thread from a previous related post of mine.

My husband is currently on JSA and is looking to set up as self employed. He's had a couple of frustrating appointment at the JC with supposed advisors who are trained to deal with his circumstances but have proved no help. He has a further appointment next week and plans to go armed with details of the NEA and a business plan to show how serious he is.

My main concern is when will JS payments cease? He has privately owned equipment for the business that he intends to buy in to the business so technically won't be making profit for a while despite working and getting payments from customers.

Will JSA cease...

(A) at the point he starts working regardless of money
(B) at the point he makes a profit, after taking into account all start up costs, equipment bought into the business
(C) at the point he receives custom/payment regardless of profit

Or any other scenario.

I suppose what I'm trying to ascertain is if it's better for him to keep on JSA rather than go down the NEA route, as the NEA allowance is a lot less than his JSA and the business is likely to be a very slow starter.

If it's relevant, I am also not employed, but get Carers Allowance for my disabled son. I will be doing his admin & bookkeeping.

tomterm8

On the NEA scheme JSA stops when you sign off... at which point you'll get your NE allowance and be eligible for tax credits... which mean for the first 6 months you should be better off on NEA.

dktreesea

Stevenb wrote: »

Those are indeed the rules but we all know WTC don't ever ask for proof as they handle millions of claims a year .

A fundamental part of any business is making money and by being on HB it means your rent and CT are tax paid for giving you a lower incentive to work hard, its controversial and someone will get upset by me saying this but its true and the system will allow you to earn very small amounts meaning you can claim WTC to pay you 50 quid a week also, and people can then go around giving it the big un saying they are running there own business.

Not really how it should be done , but that's how the system allows people to be nowadays.

Until your off benefits altogether then your not truly self employed and anyone is welcome to argue this one with me but claiming HB CTB or WTC is all a benefit and no better than being on JSA.

Today is a very significant day in the UK ( if you don't know why your a ####) but our grandparents would not have been getting benefits, they would have worked there fingers raw to do the best for there families.

HMRC don't ask for proof? For sure they do eventually. Make sure you all keep very good business records. Their auditors do get around to most people over time. Sometimes it is just a phone interview. Sometimes, especially if you have significatn tax records, they come out to your home or other place of work if you have one, and go through everything.

They are not so much interested in the hours you work though. They are more into establishing that you are running a genuine business, with full expectations of making a profit. They have definitely been clamping dwon on zombie businesses lately.

And yaay for Bernard Jordan, all of 89 years young, popping across the Channel for a bit of D-Day celebrating. More power him.

Andy2013

And yaay for Bernard Jordan, all of 89 years young, popping across the Channel for a bit of D-Day celebrating. More power him.

Can not echo this enough , these people are whom we should aspire to be like , such a different ethos on how life should be done , no one expecting anything, everyone working for what they want and need.

That said im not jumping out of a plane over Normandy aged 89 :eek:

Stevenb

HMRC don't ask for proof? For sure they do eventually. Make sure you all keep very good business records. Their auditors do get around to most people over time. Sometimes it is just a phone interview. Sometimes, especially if you have significatn tax records, they come out to your home or other place of work if you have one, and go through everything.

Good advice indeed but WTC should only be a short term thing if the business is a goer and if you do have a significant tax return you probably shouldn't be getting WTC anyway.

Like all benefits at the end of the day your under the thumb, begging for government help and that is very degrading , get your businesses moving quickly so you no longer need to go to them cap in hand.

dktreesea

Andy2013 wrote: »

Ouuuuuuch !!! that's going to upset someone, but I agree with almost all of it.

If I had HB paying my £800 rent and CTB paying my £130 council tax I most likely would not have been so determined to make money like I have and as I said a couple of times I cut all my ties with HB and CTB in January last year so that I had real time goals to reach and in April last year we moved to a new build 2 bed house , im not bragging but im damn proud of what I have achieved in 18 months and if I was still on HB I am sure I would still be living in a damp poxy studio apartment earning just enough to play the game.

I've come to the conclusion there are two types of people who are self employed in today's Britain. The first are either semi-willing or unwilling, forced into it by circumstances. Or they really fancy being self employed but are unprepared for how much harder work it is compared to being a wage slave. So they are unable to find paid work as an employee - i.e. possibly their preference - but don't want to survive the rest of their lives on jsa with all the sanctions and arbitrary hoops to jump through that this implies. They may even get used to being self employed, and enjoy not having a boss, a long commute, or whatever challenges they faced working for others. But they struggle. Their businesses don't thrive, not just due to lack of capital and or effort, but because they are unwilling to risk losing their benefits to a business they regard as having a risky, uncertain outcome going forward.

The second group could end up self employed exactly the same way as the first group, but may not be entitled to any benefits. They could have savings that have to be used up first, a partner who earns too much for them to get any benefits, or be entitled to but not want benefits. If they are relying on their businesses to pay their rent/mortgage or even buy tomorrow's meal, then sure, they are probably going to work a lot harder, relative to the first group, for their business.

TrueBlue1965

What your forgetting, dktreesea, stevenb and Andy2013 is that many of those who are employed by others as emplyee,s claim WTC and Housing Benefit even though they are working full-time. Most of these employee,s work hard in jobs that are vital or everything in our society will come to a halt. Those on benefis should not be looked down on. Benefits are for those who are entitled to them for whatever reason in a very unequal society!

There are very few people in our society who dont want to work for their living. Im sure you all think you know lots of people who dont want to work. However, the truth is that in times of high employment. Most people find work and hold down full-time jobs. Those who are out of work and claiming JCA and the other benefits available are generally in-between jobs and will find a job in time. Remember, we have all been unemployed. Thats one of the key parts of being eligable to go on NEA. Did you really want to be claiming any benefits. I know i,ve never wanted to need to claim any benefit but im happy to claim anything that im intitled to that helps my family and my business.

If its helped you by not claiming those benefits, Andy2013 then thats great for you. Well-done! However, for many. Not knowing if the rent is going to be paid is more than enough reason to give up the dream of being self-employed. In my case. It would be stupid to do what you did as I have young children to support. Its Tory twaddle to believe that taking benefits away from people will make them work harder. It might make them more desperate and willing to except less! The aim of being better off is what drives me forward. Im sure its the same for most on NEA.

Quote from Stevenb - Until your off benefits altogether then your not truly self employed and anyone is welcome to argue this one with me but claiming HB CTB or WTC is all a benefit and no better than being on JSA.

Im not sure you understand the reasons why we have all these benefits and who is entitled to them and at what point they stop. These benefits are a right within our society and are aimed at making the people within our society a little more equal. Our society is already very unequal.

Quote from Stevenb - Today is a very significant day in the UK ( if you don't know why your a ####) but our grandparents would not have been getting benefits, they would have worked there fingers raw to do the best for there families.

Your forgetting that before the war there was mass unemployment and major povery in this country and across the world. Our society is a better place because we have a benefit system which attempts to protect people/families. Our grandparents went though wars and many fights with those in power to give us many of these benefits people are entitled to today. Many of those same people your talking about lived in slums and worked themselves in to early graves because they had little choice! Your remembering the good old days that where not so good for most! Please, dont forget those who gave up their lives to proect us but also, dont forget what they where fighting for. That fight continues!

dktreesea, those who do best in running their own businesses are self motvating. They still need luck as well as good judgment to make their businesses work. Sometimes making a business work is very difficult and it often takes lots of time. Some of the best businessmen in the world get it wrong no matter how hard they work. Thats even with massive resorces behind them.

Im not sure what the official stats are on what is the norm for a new business to start producing good profits. I,ve read reports of more than a year and its not unusual for two years and lots of debt before most businesses turn around and start to make a profit. If you read the stuff on The Start-Up Loan Companys website. The general suggestion is that if you can show that you can sell your produt or service. Then, their is potential for repeat sales. You will get a loan after proof of sales and then extra backing though a StartUp mentor. The business is demmed to be viable because there is the potential for repeat sales and so, deemed to have the potential to make money . How much money the business then makes is then down to the individual. Thats down to how hard they work. How much luck they have and how many new skills they gain along the way. This all has to come together in the time fraim of how long the money invested in the business lasts before the business goes bust. Based on all of this. Claiming any benefits on offer is a must if you want to give yourself the best chance of surviving and making the business work!

Andy2013

dktreesea , there are a third group you have missed, and these are the mass majority of people running there own business ,those individuals that like myself were entitled to get benefits but chose not to accept them and make there own way in setting up a business without getting money of the state to aid them , it would have been easier indeed but I felt it was not the right thing to do .

I hated being on JSA , being made to feel like I owed them something , begging and pleading for help, it was degrading.

I actually chose to go self employed and take the risk by stopping HB on my own but the JC offered me NEA and as I was promised a mentor and guidance it seemed a no brainer ,these turned out to be false promises but my initial idea was to go it alone 100% , which turned out pretty much how it was except for the poxy £33

Im not sure you understand the reasons why we have all these benefits and who is entitled to them and at what point they stop. These benefits are a right within our society and are aimed at making the people within our society a little more equal. Our society is already very unequal.

Just because its a right does not mean we have to take , this is the fundamental problem with society today, to many expect things to be given to them.

TrueBlue1965 , I understand you have children , they come first so this is a slightly different case but I still get the impression from all of your benefit hugging posts that you would claim regardless of morals.