Buildings insurance > Drains/subsidence claims

garchad

I'd appreciate readers thoughts on a sticky problem.

I'm currently trying to sell my house. The chain has just collapsed due to a problem with a branch drain (i.e. not the main drain), at the rear corner of our house.

Basically, the drain is cracked, water has been seeping out over the past few years causing the ground to soften and the corner of the house to drop by a few millimteres.

It has caused cracking around kitchen window, bathroom window, etc. Nothing big, certainly less then 3mm. We only became aware of the problem through our ex-buyer's survey. That suggested a drains report, which he had done, which revealed the cracking in the drain. We've also had a structural engineers report done, which confirmed the drains as the cause of the internal cracks and signs of movement. We are in the process of getting the drains fixed, after which we will obtain a structural certificate from the engineer. Once that's done, we aim to get the house back on the market.

I've been in touch with my insurers but so far, because I was trying to keep the chain afloat, I've taken the quickest option of paying for all the reports, etc, myself. I'm hoping that when the insurer gets up to speed, I can send them the reports I've already had done, to save them having to start all over again by instructing their own people.

My worry is that even with the correct paper trail, structural certificates, etc any buyer is going to have trouble getting standard insurance if they have to disclose a subsidence issue. Anyone had any experience with this? Will I be able to make the claim as a 'drains' claim, as opposed to a 'subsidence' claim, thereby hopefully avoiding the insurance problem all together?

Thanks for any advice.

Gareth

Debt_Free_Chick

garchad wrote:

My worry is that even with the correct paper trail, structural certificates, etc any buyer is going to have trouble getting standard insurance if they have to disclose a subsidence issue. Anyone had any experience with this? Will I be able to make the claim as a 'drains' claim, as opposed to a 'subsidence' claim, thereby hopefully avoiding the insurance problem all together?

It shouldn't be a problem - but it will be for some potential buyers. They will simply not understand what's happened and will walk away. For this reason, I'd be inclined to be upfront with potential buyers e.g. those who make an offer. When I had this situation, it was bloomin obvious to all viewers as the work had only just been finished and I marketed the property with the kitchen as a shell - no furniture/fittings of any description, just newly plastered walls, painted in white emulsion!

As for insurance, the easiest option would be for any buyer to take on your insurance - or rather, they take on a policy with your existing insurer.

Arguably, you have not suffered "subsidence" in the way that ought to scare insurers and buyers. That usually refers to ongoing creeping subsidence cause by landslip/heave - and there is little one can do to address that issue. It tends to need ongoing remedial work to shore the property up.

In your case, the property suffered one-off movement due to leaking drains. Stop the leaking drains and the cause of the movement is remedied and should not expect to return (unless the drains leak again!).

For the reason above, I would explain the problem as one of leaking drains, causing some movement to the rear of the property. Personally, this seems more accurate to me than a description of "subsidence" - but don't expect everyone to agree with that!

Would be good to hear how you get on as this question crops up surprisingly often. My own view is that much of what is reported as "subsidence" is to do with leaking drains ....

garchad

Wel, it turned out better than I hoped. I made the claim as a drainage problem, with the movement just a secondary consequence of the broken drain. Insurers were happy with that. Sent out a surveyor, he agreed that looked like drains were the sole cause. Got the drains fixed. Once drains done, got a structural engineer round who checked everything, foundations, sub-soil, etc. he was happy with everything, no more movement, no underpinning needed, nice structural approval certificate to prove that drains have been fixed and all OK for when I come to sell.

In hindsight, it seems like a case of an overzealous surveyor covering himself by suggesting a check for subsidence is done, and once the subsidence genie is out of the bottle, it is takes on a course of its own. Fortunately a very savvy builder we had round, on seeing the cracks in question, put the whole thing in perspective, explained the drains angle more clearly, and hey ho, all worked out fine.

courtjester

As a rider to that, this is clearly a case of subsidence - that is what the movement derives from, namely subsidence of the foundation leading to the opening up of cracks in the walls above ground.

This can be due to many causes, broken drains are quite common. In your case the fix is easy - stop water escaping from the drain and you remove the reason the wall is moving and arrest the opening up of cracks which can then be safely repaired. If there are no other contributory factors (such as presence of a large tree or unusual soil make up) it won't re-occur unless the drains break again.

It is not the question of subsidence being a problem with property sales per se, but whether the cause of that subsidence was properly identified and dealt with.

A property that is moving due to unspecified ground movement and a number of potential causes is more problematic and can lead to longwinded investigations to establish cause so that a solution can be reached.

Most household policies cover costs arising from investigation and remedial repairs following subsidence, but have an excess of £1000-£1500 so that you have to pay all professional costs and repair bills up to that amount before the policy takes over.

On a purely drains issue, the insurers may be prepared to pay for the cost of repairing the drains under the "Accidental Damage to underground services" cover, without applying an excess, although technically all other remedial works (such as crack repairs and redecoration) are subject potentially to the subsidence excess.