Can i sack someone for excessive internet usage

SueC_2

Alecz wrote: »

there are 500 links in a day for the browsing history she may not have visited all these sites as they may be ads etc or the browser refreshing ?? I find that hard to believe .

Okay, you find that hard to believe, let's look at the alternative:

- She works an eight hour day, which is 480 minutes. Assuming that she doesn't leave her desk for a single minute during that day, this means she is looking at more than one website per minute.

- Assuming she takes an hour's worth of breaks / going to the loo / getting a coffee, answering the phone, she has been looking at even more. Some would say that's barely long enough to type the web address let alone browse the site.

I know which scenario I find harder to believe.

SueC_2

Alecz wrote: »

There is no way that she could have been productive .

Do you have no other way of measuring her productivity?

The more I read of what you have to say, the more I believe that you need to look at the way you do your job before you start looking at the way your employees do theirs.

Perhaps begin by asking yourself what is important to you, an employee's Inputs or Outputs?

DVardysShadow

Alecz wrote: »

... As a result i suppose i will reluctantly call her for a disciplinary hearing and warn her about her conduct and see if she changes and write up a policy in the interim .

As Idi Amin once said, "we will give them a fair trial and then hang them"

getmore4less

Alecz wrote: »

Ok thanks for all your help .


I am listening . Mine is a small company and obviously the fact that she was not working has cost me money . In this economic climate we cant afford this . As a small company for 20 years we have never had these policies but i realise that maybe we should have had them .

As a result i suppose i will reluctantly call her for a disciplinary hearing and warn her about her conduct and see if she changes and write up a policy in the interim .

But as I said before you seem to have no measures of performance or productivity so you have no idea what this has cost if anything.

this employee could be still producing morethan others that just sit there doing nothing.

You also have very dubious measure of any misconduct and don't seem to understand the data you have.

Understand your internet connection and put blocks on if you don't want staff using it for personal use

Put together a policy and track usage properly, not using local browser logs.

Put in better procedures to measure employees performace and productivity, without those how can you decide who contributes and needs renumerating.

Introduce the procedures and start using them .

Do employees need to use the internet to do their jobs if not block it during working hours many routers allow this facility.


Check your employees on facebook and twitter they may have been stupid and given you something to hang them with.

RuthnJasper

I've only scanned this thread briefly, but it seems reasonably clear to me that one cannot write a corporate policy and then sack someone for Gross Misconduct for not having adhered to that policy retrospectively.

Issuing the employee with the company internet usage policy and asking them to sign it as an indication of their acceptance of it. That ought, therefore, to serve as a "warning". If, after signing to adherence to the policy, the non-work-related browsing continues - well, that's different.

I don't think one can discipline people for rules/laws that don't exist, any more than one can write new rules/policies in order to get rid of someone. I have the great misfortune of having to work with someone who thinks they can do this - the last straw for her latest victim was a humiliating public berating of the unfortunate chap because he had purchased a tape-measure (for £2.23) for his toolbox without obtaining three written quotes first.

SandC

I think you could go down the gross misconduct route if you found that this employee had been surfing the internet instead of doing her work.

But as you found out by accident that cannot be the case.

Sometimes, when people have been in a job for a while they become extremely efficient, which gives them time to do things like surf the internet. You could employ someone tomorrow doing her exact same duties and they probably wouldn't have the time to spend online. Also, if you are looking for something on the internet - a handbag say, you can fit in loads of hits in a very short time on one website.

There is little point, because you had no policies in place, but surely time spent online is more important than hits? You could have it open all day, which is actually far less time wasting than logging out then in again every time you get five minutes.

Anyway, you are now going to speak to her about it. Use this to both your advantage is what I would do. Ask her if she feels she is underutilised and has more capacity for work or would like more responsibility. Look on it as she has only been able to do this because she's so efficient in her work. Maybe she would like to get involved in producing policies, with the help of yourself, HR or whichever external bodies can assist small businesses with these things.

Atom

I would say it was unacceptable to be browsing during work hours but to sack her straight off would be a bit harsh i think - get a policy, some net filters for social networking sites, shopping sites etc and give her a warning then if it continues you would be in a better position to show her the door.

Saying that if you do have issues with this particular person then it doesn't really matter what anyone says your gonna find some excuse to give her the boot.

MyMissC3

Hi,

Sacking somebody for 200 hits it is just silly, honestly.

As somebody well stated in other posts, there are people able to do their job quicker. This does not give an employer the right to squeeze them more...

I personally sometimes browse around the Internet exactly for the purpose of moving my attention away from my tasks so I can go back with full attention to my work, rather than doing a long session with lower attention level that could cause me doing the same job in double the time (I don't smoke, so I do not take any "smocking break" like other employees that do that 20 times a day...). I am very productive, I help my company, reach my goals and complete my tasks. That it is all that should matter.

I also believe a place that is more based on results than how many hours you "seem" to be working, it is a much better place and people will likely be happier in such workplace. Never heard about 'morale' and 'fun' in work? Have a look here http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/155284/does_gaming_at_work_improve_productivity.html

Another thing. Do you really believe that all people that you THINK are working all their full hours, do actually WORK all their hours? While you are pointing at this person for reasons that could be questionable, other employees may just get away with it... In my workplace there are a number of people that, as soon as the boss is out, spend time chitchatting or just doing nothing and, oh no, you will not find any "hits", they have their own mobile phones to do that if they want, don't worry!!

I also have to say that 200-300 hits are IMHO nothing: I can reach that stage in 10 minutes or even less, especially if the website I am visiting is connecting to other external websites, which will count as calls to these other websites, while I am just visiting one...

Last, I believe that if you have no policies and if you basically pretty much "have the feeling" that she spent to much time browsing rather than working (which thing you can't say as a hit does not say how long she spent on that page), you don't even have the basis for "warning" her. As stated above, 300 hits count nothing in itself.

You should implement some way to measure productivity, before putting in place any silly policy that will sound like 'you are in prison and no fun for you while in work'. If she is doing her job properly and on time/schedule, what are you moaning about?

You said you will "reluctantly" warn her. So, let me understand, you prefer just sack her instead? How come that does not make you reluctant too?

I am sorry, but although I (really) do understand the point of view of an employer, it seems to me too that you are trying to find her guilty somehow, like an excuse to sack her.

Another thing, as boss it is your job to *take care* of your people. If for any reason she's less productive now, you should find out why and help your employee to get back on track and be happier with her work. If you do not do that or, even worst, if you are not willing to do that, then any comment stating that you are a bad boss it is likely to be true...

I wish you good luck anyway.

DVardysShadow

MyMissC3 wrote: »

I also believe a place that is more based on results than how many hours you "seem" to be working, it is a much better place and people will likely be happier in such workplace.

I agree. The worst kind of conformity you can have from an employee is conformity to false targets. So if someone is highly rated for saying "yessir, yessir, 3 bags full sir" and not using the internet, but twiddling their thumbs all day, whereas another person is shown the door for doing what is expected of them and a bit of surfing on the side, you are going to optimize your work places for yes-men who twiddle their thumbs all day.

The point is to optimize for real indicators of output, not false indicators such as internet usage. When you are optimizing for real indicators, factors like internet usage will tend to align to the needs of the business.

Going4TheDream

Alecz wrote: »

The sites visited were shopping sites , fashion etc . But it was used most of the day and throughout the day . I checked the browsing history over the last 3 months . Its a disgrace . There is no way that she could have been productive . Some days she is on it continuously all day with 500-600 hits .

I dont see why i should let her stay. Why does the employee have all teh rights .

The question is, is it ok for me to check the person net access in this way. Checking the net there are conflicting opininons regarding privacy at work but is seems an employer can monitor internet access emails etc at work if he thinks something is not right .

Legally you can monitor phone calls and email and internet usage however the employees need to be aware that this is happening and as long as guidelines are followed on why you are doing this as below they do not need to consent to it...

to establish facts which are relevant to the business, to check that procedures are being followed, or to check standards, for example, listening in to phone-calls to assess the quality of work
to prevent or detect crime
to check for unauthorised use of telecommunications systems, such as whether using the internet or email for personal use
to make sure electronic systems are operating effectively, for example, to prevent computer viruses entering the system
to check whether a communication received, such as an email or phone-call is relevant to the business. In this case, employer can open up emails or listen to voice-mails but is not allowed to record calls ie cannot knowlingly record personal calls
to check calls to confidential help lines. In this case, employer can listen in, but is not allowed to record these calls
in the interests of national security.



It seems to me that you are monitoring without advising employees that this is happening and without having an internet policy in place so they are not aware of any guidelines on internet usage , and you are checking their browsing history to assume this usage which is hardly a reliable and consistant tool. To answer your question ........This is exactly why employees have rights: to protect them from bad and sloppy practices such as this. It would seem to me without an internet policy in place and without advising the employee she is being monitored it is infact you that is breaking the law not her breaking any unwritten rules.

I would suggest that you speak to your HR dept and see if they can draft an internet/email policy, and if they can source a reliable internet software monitoring package before anything else. If you do not have a HR dept ie if you are a small business then try ACAS who can advise you of how you can set up a policy etc