ML's discussion with Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 today

taffie999

I listened to this discussion today and could not believe ML's repeated assertion that students leaving University with £30000 to £40000 of loan repayments outstanding are not in debt. With the use of semantics and flawed logic (Jeremy Vine was absolutely spot on and very articulate with this argument) ML clearly does not understand what it must be like to have this level of debt hanging over someone for 30 years, and the degree of pain this will cause to the average family with children who aspire to go into Higher Education. For a financial guru, he appears to be unaware of the culture of debt that got us into this mess to start with. He cited psychological reasons for those who object to the “New Order”. Of course, the way in which people manage money, and their approach to debt is a psychological issue. Owing tens of thousands of pounds for several decades will have a psychological effect, if only because it will be so relentless. A student in 1981, who would have watched the news about the Yorkshire Ripper and Bobby Sands, would see their loan finished off this year. Their mortgage, if they ever get onto the ladder, would probably end sooner than that. It will also have a physical effect, for people just starting work, perhaps wanting a property, or to start a family. He ignored the vast increase in the fees themselves and spoke about how it’s good in a way because the rich will now have to pay for themselves, instead of being subsidised. It is of no concern to the rich, they won't even feel it. They are few, anyway, as can be seen by the distribution of wealth in this country. The hardest hit will be, as always the middle earners, who work incredibly hard to provide a better life for their kids. The fact that ML is totally comfortable with youths being saddled with debt to the age of approximately 52 is absolutely staggering. Yes, they pay less per year. Yes it kicks in at 21k instead of 15K. We get that. However- we also get this -yes they pay three times as much for fees (until they rise again) - yes they pay higher interest rates, yes they pay for much, much longer (30 years is a life sentence) and yes they pay much, much more than students in comparable European countries. As with every other aspect of modern British life, what you get is based on your ability to pay, and not on merit, as can be clearly seen by the profile of those who lead the country. The class system and the Establishment are being maintained. Our ethical and moral standards have hit a depressing low and money and wealth now really are all that matter. Fairness and equality are under constant attack, based on policies set by people who have never even held a real job. Erosion of our education system is unlikely to improve matters and we should be fighting it tooth and nail.
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Lokolo

You seem to misunderstand a lot.

1. The current loan system works with 30 years before being wiped out.

2. The new student loans will not have a great impact on the amount you take home in your monthly pay. For example, someone on £30k a year will have their wages reduced by £67.50 a month. So this "cannot afford a mortgage" business is not true what so ever.

3. It will not cause "pain" in the family, get a grip. Those that are psychological effected by the thought of having £50k of debt when you may not even pay back a penny clearly should not be going to university in the first place. The biggest impact of the student loans isn't the amount of debt, but the amount you earn which is going to have the greatest effect - and even that is minimal.

4. You do not "get what you can afford to pay", it has nothing to do with the class system as no-one is being told "sorry you are too poor, you can't go to university". Everyone has the choice to take out the loans.

5. Learn to use paragraphs, it's very difficult to read your post.

Oldernotwiser

Totally agree about the paragraphs and also your lack of understanding.

Student loans need only be seen as debt hanging over people if other people, like you, keep telling them that this is the case.

Repayment of student loans needs to be considered as a graduate tax on income over £21,000, with the advantage that this tax will stop after 30 years or when the graduate, having had a well paid job for some years, has repaid the loan.

Simon11

I'd rather have university free, however people can only go to uni with minium of CCC. As to why somone with DD goes to uni, I don't understand. If they couldn't handle a levels, they can't handle uni. I'm sure there is strong correlation between the too.

I also find it amusing that the current lot of MP's went to university and never paid any fees for university, yet expect current students to do so. I think all MP's who went to university for free, should pay £12k a year for their university years.

Then watch em complain!

The_One_Who

Simon11 wrote: »

I also find it amusing that the current lot of MP's went to university and never paid any fees for university, yet expect current students to do so. I think all MP's who went to university for free, should pay £12k a year for their university years.

I can never understand this argument. The majority of MPs who have degrees will have gained them during a time when going to university was for the few. As far as I am aware, things were still means-tested during that time as well.

Oldernotwiser

Simon11 wrote: »

I'd rather have university free, however people can only go to uni with minium of CCC. As to why somone with DD goes to uni, I don't understand. If they couldn't handle a levels, they can't handle uni. I'm sure there is strong correlation between the too.

I also find it amusing that the current lot of MP's went to university and never paid any fees for university, yet expect current students to do so. I think all MP's who went to university for free, should pay £12k a year for their university years.

Equally, all those who complain about current fees should wonder whether they would be the one of their four friends who would actually be at university under previous, decently funded systems.