Leaking/seeping water

akh43

I have just discovered we have a leaking problem, I only noticed it for the first time the other day when noticed a damp patch on the hall ceiling/top of wall on exterior wall. From when I first noticed it on saturday it now seems to have developed into a drip coming from the cornice where there is a crack.

Not fully sure of the reason but one possible cuplrit came to light on investigating the bathroom above the leak and the outside wall. We have had an intermittent problem with the overflow on the toilet and if you do not flush on a regular basis then it overflows and drips outside not sure if this is the source of the water or not but am trying to rule this out first. Although I have tried tightening the bolt thing on the arm with the ballcock it still has a drip, drip effect which over time overflows on the outside wall. Any suggestions on how I can fix this would be appreciated then at least we can fully rule out if this is indeed the problem or do I need a plumber. I have sorted out minor plumbing problems previously like replacing the bath tap gland when that was leaking at christmas.

On pulling out the boxing on the pipes in the bathroom and lifting the cushion flooring it was wet underneath the cushion floor. Under the cushion floor the previous owners have used some sort of hardboard type material to make a smooth surface for the floor on top of the floorboards. This hardboard seems to have drawn the water from the wall like a sponge and on feeling under the pipes although there is water there is a joist which seems quite well and not sure if when the water is going out via the overflow it is somehow coming back in as well. The damp all seems to come out from the wall area. We have ripped up a lot of the wet hardboard stuff, work still in progress and are trying to at least flush regularly so it doesnt overflow to see if there is an improvement. Problem being there is still the drip in the hall even though nothing is overflowing at the moment, we have put something underneath to try and guage how much water is coming out and if it has stopped. The water seems to be clean water.

On investigating all this another problem came to light, which happened when investigating the damp floor. The waste pipe from the bathroom sink is not joined properly in that you can just separate them apart and now that is leaking as well. As a temporary measure I tried ducktape but it did not hold. Also noticed when trying to fix that the piece of pipe is full of gunk, no idea how to clear this, have tried to scoop it out as much as I can in a limited space, but the bottom of the pipe seems to be fixed tight into the bottom joint and painted over, wondering if I should just try and undo this and replace the whole piece of pipe with a new one. Very difficult to reach the pipe very limited space and other pipes in the same area. What is the best way to join the waste pipe at the bend joint to the pipe that goes down? Have covered up the sink at the moment to stop us accidentally using and causing more leaks, but need to try and sort asap, hopefully at the weekend. Is this something I can do myself or would I need a plumber to sort?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

27col

The first thing that you need to do is to eliminate all the leaks. The ball valve needs a new washer, or replace it completely. The drainage needs to be examined closely and any faulty connections either refitted properly, or the offending joints replaced. There can be no half measures, you need to replace/refix every joint so that they don't leak.
Do what is necessary, even though this might be a pain at the time. There is no one correct way to solve the problem, there is always more than one way to fix plumbing leaks. while you are doing it, make sure that you fit local isolators to any appliances in the area.
From your description, you already know the scale of damage that a leak can cause, which in itself should be incentive enough to get the job done properly. There are several videos on line which show how to do basic plumbing, and what you have described is only basic plumbing.

akh43

27col wrote: »

The first thing that you need to do is to eliminate all the leaks. The ball valve needs a new washer, or replace it completely. The drainage needs to be examined closely and any faulty connections either refitted properly, or the offending joints replaced. There can be no half measures, you need to replace/refix every joint so that they don't leak.
Do what is necessary, even though this might be a pain a the time. There is no one correct way to solve the problem, there is always more than one way to fix plumbing leaks. while you are doing it, make sure that you fit local isolators to any appliances in the area.
From your description, you already know the scale of damage that a leak can cause, which in itself should be incentive enough to get the job done properly. There are several videos on line which show how to do basic plumbing, and what you have described is only basic plumbing.

Thanks for the reply.

Not sure if I quoted the wrong bit as faulty on the ballcock. The ball float is not totally shutting off the water supply so it is filling up quickly and then when it should stop the water coming in it is still dripping in so over a very short while, an hour or less, the water reaches the overspill level and the water then leaks outside. This is a plastic unit, not that old I dont think, I inherited it, but I would think around 10 years or so. There is a screw & bolt on the ball float arm to adjust when it stops the water, but despite my trying to adjust that it makes no difference. Not sure if the washer is my problem does my extra information help/change the advice.

As a temporary measure as I am at work we have rigged up something to support the ball float so it only drips the water into the cistern and after checking overnight the cistern still was not full.

The drip through the ceiling is still there but not quite as much as last night. My son has marked the damp patches so we can tell if they get any bigger.

On checking outside where the overspill pipe is in the daylight from ground level it looks as though there is some brick or something missing around the overspill pipe so not sure if when it is spilling out it is then coming back into the house this way. I will have to get up the ladder at the weekend to have a better look and assess the situation better. Problem being it is raining today so although we have stopped the toilet overflowing the rain may also be a contributor. If it is that this is how the water is getting back in would I just be able to cement around the overspill pipe or would I need to use something else?

I was hoping that if we stopped the toilet overflowing we would at least be able to eliminate if that was the problem, will probably have to wait until the next dry day to fully find out.

Nothing else seems to be leaking from what we can see, the waste pipe from the sink is not in use at the moment and will need fixing or replacing which I will look into at the weekend, not sure on my best options re that yet.

Are the isolaters the things the electricians put on the pipes with the green/yellow wires? If so they are on every pipe, in fact they are part of the reason I cant get to the sink waste pipe.

Can you suggest any good videos online or do I just do a general google?

27col

Isolation valves are small valves that are inserted in the supply pipes close to the appliances. They are used to isolate the appliances from the water supply during maintenance or replacement. They are nothing to do with the electrics, they are plumbing components.
If you haven't got them fitted then you should, as it makes emergencies a lot less traumatic if you can isolate the affected appliance without turning off all the water to the house.
What you are describing about the ball valve sounds exactly what would happen when a washer is damaged and letting by. The result is that the water runs into the cistern continuously and thus overflows. If the washer is faulty, no amount of adjusting the arm is going to make any difference. The washer must be replaced.
Depending on the type of ball valve you have it is possible that there is small diaphragm in it. This would need to been replaced as it is doing the same job as the washer.
If you stop the water running from the overflow then any bit of repair where it goes through the wall can be done at leisure. The priority is to stop the cistern from overflowing.

Try this link http://www.victoriaplumb.com/bathroom_DIY/repairing_toilets.html. There are many others. Just Google cistern repair or something similar.

akh43

I dont think we have isolators from how you describe them, will bear that advice in mind if I finish up getting a plumber to fix.

I am off this afternoon so am going to look further into this. Thanks for confirming that it does seem to be a washer prolem. Problem being the other night we could not even figure out how to turn off the cold water supply!! We can turn off the downstairs supplies, I did think until the other night it also turn off the upstairs cold water and the upstairs hot water supply, but have not yet figured out how to turn off the upstairs supply as we cannot find any tap and the only wheel conected to the combi boiler does not seem to affect anything.


Thanks for the link will print off the relevant part. My assembly is plastic so will have to see if it tallies to the pictures and see where we go from there.

Thanks for your reply and suggestions.

27col

The problems that you are describing about trying to turn the water off are exactly the reason why all your appliances should have local isolators fitted to them. When something has a local isolator the need to rush about trying to fix the fault immediately goes away. You just turn off the supply to the faulty item and the rest of the house is unaffected. Which means you can take your time and do the repair properly without having to rush it.

muckybutt

akh43 wrote: »

Are the isolaters the things the electricians put on the pipes with the green/yellow wires? If so they are on every pipe, in fact they are part of the reason I cant get to the sink waste pipe.

FYI In line iso valve http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/c-x-c-15mm-isolating-valve-333-20566?utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=GB&utm_campaign=GoogleBase

The green / yellow wires are a safety electrical connection http://www.gil-lec.co.uk/products/Sundries/Earthing/Earth%20Clamps/Earth%20Clamp%20EC14%20for%20use%20in%20dry%20conditions/3814321578 absolutely nothing to do with plumbing at all, however if you do plumbing work and have to remove them, always put them back.

plumb1_2

akh43 wrote: »

I dont think we have isolators from how you describe them, will bear that advice in mind if I finish up getting a plumber to fix.

I am off this afternoon so am going to look further into this. Thanks for confirming that it does seem to be a washer prolem. Problem being the other night we could not even figure out how to turn off the cold water supply!! We can turn off the downstairs supplies, I did think until the other night it also turn off the upstairs cold water and the upstairs hot water supply, but have not yet figured out how to turn off the upstairs supply as we cannot find any tap and the only wheel conected to the combi boiler does not seem to affect anything.



Thanks for the link will print off the relevant part. My assembly is plastic so will have to see if it tallies to the pictures and see where we go from there.

Thanks for your reply and suggestions.

Get plumber in to repair/replace the ballvalve and waste pipe,and install isolation valve, the longer you leave the problem the more damage it will do.

akh43

27col wrote: »

The problems that you are describing about trying to turn the water off are exactly the reason why all your appliances should have local isolators fitted to them. When something has a local isolator the need to rush about trying to fix the fault immediately goes away. You just turn off the supply to the faulty item and the rest of the house is unaffected. Which means you can take your time and do the repair properly without having to rush it.

I wish I did have these as you say it would be so much easier, but now sure how much it would cost to have them fitted, will ask.

muckybutt wrote: »

FYI In line iso valve http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/c-x-c-15mm-isolating-valve-333-20566?utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=GB&utm_campaign=GoogleBase

That looks like how I turn the hot water off on one of the hot water pipes leading to the combi boiler.

plumb1 wrote: »

Get plumber in to repair/replace the ballvalve and waste pipe,and install isolation valve, the longer you leave the problem the more damage it will do.

I have someone coming tomorrow to have a look, I doubt they will be able to do everything in the morning, but at least they should be able to sort the leak, which in my opinion is the priority repair.

Update:

The overflow has nothing to do with the leak in the hall, though it is something that needs fixing in the near future we have stopped the overflow aspect on a temporary basis.

The gap in the bricks on the exterior wall also has nothing to do with the leak in the hall.

I phoned up my home insurer to see if this was anything that would be covered by my insurance because the damp patches in the hall are getting bigger by the day. They said they would put right the damage caused by the leak but they would not cover the cost of tracing the leak or repairing it. Also, with the standard excess and my voluntary excess it would cost me £375!!! Someone is coming to assess the cost of the damage on Thursday. I have provisionally registered a claim with my insurer, but can decide to cancel it if I dont think it is cost effective.

After speaking to the insurer I decided to have another look in the bathroom as I was now convinced the leak was coming from the bathroom somewhere. I removed more of the boxing around the pipes and found that there is a small leak where the previous occupier has joined a copper pipe to a lead pipe. Have managed to stem the flow for the time being and this is definitely the source as the drip stopped now.

I have found a plumber who is recommended by a friend of a friend, coming around 8.30am tomorrow. Hopefully he can either fix the leaking pipe or replace it and he is to also look at the other problems and I can get a quote.

I have had my windows open all afternoon and now put on my dehumidifier, didnt think to do this until a friend mentioned it, in the hope it will speed up the drying process. She had a similar type of leak herself and in the end once it had dried out the damage was minimal to the plasterwork and she did not fix so I am going to see how it goes and then make my decision.

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions, much appreciated.

akh43

Update:

Leak now fixed and sink waste pipe and only charged £65.

Only thing still to do is the overflow and the plumber did confirm it was a washer and showed me where it was, so I think this is something I can do myself.

Just got to wait now to see how the water damage dries out, but hopeful that it will in which case it will just need a lick of paint to cover up all the different colour pen marks so we could track the speed of growth of the damp patch. I will also need to replace the hardboard which was under the bathroom cushionfloor with something similar as the area is now uneven due to ripping up half of it.

missile

There should be an isolation valve on the feed. You may not have recognised it? Look for a small fitting with a slot in to turn the valve. See here > http://www.screwfix.com/p/conex-isolating-valve-15mm-x/78891

You may like to turn off the water supply to the water closet until you get round to replacing the "washer". Obviously turn it on when you need to refil after flushing.