pcn for overstaying ... but valid reason under police order

RENEGADE_2

Tifo, you have my sincerest condolences.

I don't know whether things really need to be taken to extremes with the press, police, etc., there is the appeal procedure. Councils must surely realise that courts are not playgrounds - hop in and out as you please. In my experiences, they have been reasonable in perusal on most occasions. They'll likely request some form of proof but I don't think obtaining it will be difficult. I believe there is no way the penalties will be cancelled by phoning and shouting at them because in all probability, the officer had grounds to believe his actions were justified. I suggest, appeal as you would - joint should be fine as you will name yourselves as being together, and if the outcome is negative, then resort to the other options. Don't pay of course, write back and tell them that you believe they have been officious, unsympathetic and bureaucratic - but I really cannot see how you can be forced to paying a ticket when the very same authorities caused you to land in this situation.

Besides, you did pay for a ticket for 2 hrs. This must suggest some good intention in that you were not flouting rules. It would have been far worse had you not bought a ticket.

AlexisV

At this stage, just appeal. Look at other options if they refuse. You would have the right to appeal again after receiving the Notice to Owner.

tifo

RENEGADE wrote: »

Councils must surely realise that courts are not playgrounds - hop in and out as you please. In my experiences, they have been reasonable in perusal on most occasions.

Besides, you did pay for a ticket for 2 hrs. This must suggest some good intention in that you were not flouting rules. It would have been far worse had you not bought a ticket.

I hope the council does see things the way they are and not as another way of making some money.

We would have paid for 3 hours had we known, but 2 hours was OK at the last hearing. We went over by around 15 mins this time, but only because proceedings started later and lasted longer than expected. Once in the court room, we could not come out as the police officer (and the court staff I suppose) would not allow it in the middle of a sentencing. Plus as a family we've waited a long time for this which was the police officer's reasoning for not letting us out.

Providing proof is not a problem, the police officer will of course support us and the council (somewhere) will be aware of the accident etc as it happened in their area hence their local crown court.

Thanks.

Coblcris

tifo wrote: »

Thanks for the thoughts.

The council may decline the appeal, as did the attendant. I suppose its because the police cannot interfere in lawful council activity, which is why the attendant may have have ticketed the cars even though the officer asked him not to. I don't know if there's anything such as "unless under police direction" in their guidelines.

This is why the Traffic Order must be consulted. It is extremely common for Traffic Orders to grant an exemption "when instructed by the police".
If the Order contains that exemption then claim it and back the claim up with evidence from the policeman.

The Traffic Order is a byelaw and supersedes council guidelines.

multiflorum

Hope this helps

"when instructed by the police" normally only applies to on street traffic orders and not council owned car parks. Most local councils have a general traffic order to cover all of their car parks if you decide to go down this route this would be the TRO you would need to look at.

I suspect that the council have a policy preventing CEO's withdrawing PCN's once issued, this will be to stop any acts of favourtism to any friends/relatives that are issued tickets and other acts of nepotism.

I would of hoped that an initial appeal explaining the situation and providing the officers details as a witness would be sufficent

Coblcris

I have seen such a clause in off-street Orders.
It pays to check.

tifo

I'll make a separate appeal for each, doubling the chances of a revocation or if one gets cancelled and the other doesn't it gives a good reason as same circumstances.

tifo

Traffic Management Act 2004

Powers to direct traffic officers
(1) A traffic officer shall, when carrying out his duties, comply with any direction of a constable.

Since our police officer asked the attendant not to ticket the cars, and later to withdraw the ticket, was there a contravention of the above?

tifo

Also, how long does an attendant have to observe a vehicle before issuing a ticket? In our case it was 1 minute.

Coblcris

The time depends upon the alleged contravention. Some are 'instant'.

Obtain the Traffic Order, most contain an exception when the driver is acting under the direction of a policeman.