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FTSE100 falling fast!
Comments
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Yep. Just waiting to see what Essar offer in terms of share option plans .
I bought some of those but sold again at £4.19 (at a loss?), could be a good option now.'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »RBS wrote off over £500 million of Greek Government debts in their half year results published.
So even the UK taxpayer is contributing to the bail out..
It's one thing to take a provision on a balance sheet against future potential losses, which is what RBS has done, and another thing entirely to actually realise those losses. Which they'll most probably never have to do, or at least, not at the 50% rate allowed for.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
If the solvent take on the debts of the insolvent they become insolvent too. Send it on a postcard to Peston and your local MP.
We're going to continue to disagree on this one.
Nation States that control their own currency and monetary policy can never become insolvent.... "We have this technology, it's called a printing press".
And the ultimate power in financial markets does not rest with the participants of those markets, but rather with the governments that set the rules under which those participants must operate.
Now those facts may be unpalatable to market participants who delusionally think they control events, but history is chock full of examples to the contrary. Up to and including nationalisation of entire economies and confiscation of all private assets.
As J Paul Getty was fond of saying, "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem."
The nations that represent the "Indebted Western Economies" are collectively somewhere around two thirds of the global economy. There is therefore no such thing as too big to bail, when contagion is the alternative.
And whilst an individual nation may be punished by the markets for trying to change the rules in isolation, a collective of nations deciding to all change the rules together can punish the markets very effectively.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »We're going to continue to disagree on this one.
Nation States that control their own currency and monetary policy can never become insolvent.... "We have this technology, it's called a printing press".
And the ultimate power in financial markets does not rest with the participants of those markets, but rather with the governments that set the rules under which those participants must operate.
Now those facts may be unpalatable to market participants who delusionally think they control events, but history is chock full of examples to the contrary. Up to and including nationalisation of entire economies and confiscation of all private assets.
As J Paul Getty was fond of saying, "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem."
The nations that represent the "Indebted Western Economies" are collectively somewhere around two thirds of the global economy. There is therefore no such thing as too big to bail, when contagion is the alternative.
And whilst an individual nation may be punished by the markets for trying to change the rules in isolation, a collective of nations deciding to all change the rules together can punish the markets very effectively.
You are absolutely correct in what you say Mr M. The problem is if you are printing money to pay your debts then you can end up in the situation that Zimbabwe found herself in: she was printing money to pay off her debts but she was chasing solvency. Debts in Zim dollars had to be replaced by debts in what used to be called 'hard currency'.
You are insolvent when you can't reissue your debt in your own currency. That's the starting point of losing control.0 -
Historically (17th August 1998 comes to mind), some countries have defaulted even when they can print their own currency. The risk of a country such as America or Britain defaulting is not 0%. It may be very low.
Insolvency is a tricky legal concept where it comes to a sovereign country. I guess you have to make up your own definition. Default is a well known risk.“The ideas of debtor and creditor as to what constitutes a good time never coincide.”
― P.G. Wodehouse, Love Among the Chickens0 -
You are absolutely correct in what you say Mr M. The problem is if you are printing money to pay your debts then you can end up in the situation that Zimbabwe found herself in: she was printing money to pay off her debts but she was chasing solvency. Debts in Zim dollars had to be replaced by debts in what used to be called 'hard currency'.
Oh I'm well aware of the problems Zimbabwe, an individual nation, faced.
Hence my comment....HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »whilst an individual nation may be punished by the markets for trying to change the rules in isolation, a collective of nations deciding to all change the rules together can punish the markets very effectively.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
The problem is if you are printing money to pay your debts then you can end up in the situation that Zimbabwe found herself in: she was printing money to pay off her debts but she was chasing solvency.
Several reasons why Zimbabwe experienced hyperinflation: destroying its tax revenues through land reform and an unhealthy environment that discouraged business is one, printing money to cover current expenditure is another (paying wages of its armed forces). The latter being similar for the Weimar Republic which printed to pay benefits striking workers. Both also had civil unrest before hyperinflation took hold.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe#CausesLiving for tomorrow might mean that you survive the day after.
It is always different this time. The only thing that is the same is the outcome.
Portfolios are like personalities - one that is balanced is usually preferable.
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You are insolvent when you can't reissue your debt in your own currency. That's the starting point of losing control.
But the point is that the PIGGS don't have their own currency, they're forced to operate with a currency and monetary policy framework that is entirely unsuitable for their needs.
Which brings us neatly back to my original post in this thread......HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »This isn't a liquidity crisis, or a solvency crisis, it's purely a political crisis. Hence entirely solvable once the public has been whipped into a sufficient frenzy to think the unthinkable in Germany and France.
Seriously, even Stevie Wonder could see what's about to happen.
It's little short of amazing that so many on here are buying the hype.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Pedant mode onThrugelmir wrote: »HBOS was insolvent.
LGB, prior the merger, was a solvent business run along the conservative lines of HSBC.
There's much to be disclosed regarding the transaction.
: prior to the merger it was known as Lloyds TSB Group it was only after the poison pill merger with HBOS that it became the "Lloyds Banking Group", ergo, why I said LBG not Lloyds TSB. If you think that's a weak excuse look what I wrote about Lloyds TSB in September 2009:
It is a scandal how small Lloyds TSB shareholders were shellacked as the big pension funds and insurance companies bent over for Brown & Daniels. I was utterly wrong in believing big institutional investors would put their customers ahead of politicians and directors:the likes of Lloyds, HSBC, Standard Chartered, Close Bros and plenty of other publicly listed banks have also been sensible
Mea Culpa for putting too much faith in city fat cats.why would shareholders in Lloyds want dodgy HBOS? Why should Lloyds shareholders accept the politicians attempt at a quick fix?"The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else." -- Frederic Bastiat, 1848.0
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