Tenant on Housing Benefit

skintsue

Hi, please could you give me some GENTLE and constructive advice please, I am still very delicate physically, mentally and emotionally.

I had to move out of my house and because I couldn't sell it I put it up for rent with a letting agent - a national company with multiple branches.

They found me a tenant - single mum with kids on Housing Benefit, which I wasn't that worried about as she came with glowing references from her previous landlord and bank, and a guarantor, so I thought everything would be in order. Some Joke!:(

I can't go into too many details about some of the stuff. Once everything is over I will post some of the more hair raising details on here for you to have a toe curler at, if anyone would be interested.

The main problem is that the rent is never paid on time, it's always at least 1 week late, once 6 weeks and I'm at my wits end.
The letting agent is onto her every day after the rent is due until the money is paid, the guarantor won't pick up the phone to them any more, and once again the money hasn't come in.

The Housing Dept have given her the money, and say they can't pay it directly to either me or the letting agents without her permission (as if that's going to happen).

She, and the guarator, were sent a solicitor's letter saying that if the money wasn't paid by a certain date, they would both be taken to Court under the non-payment of rent for 2 months, and if it continued in the future the tenant would be taken to court, even if it was less than 2 months as she is a persistant non payer of the rent when it is due.
The money came in for the missing month, and part of the 3rd month only 3 days before the 4th month's was due.
The 4th month's came in 2 weeks late, and this one is nearly 2 weeks late.

It has cost nearly £100 in solicitor's letters so far, which I can ill afford.
After another converation today discussing the 'persistant non-payer' angle I was advised that this was discretionary on the part of the Judge, who might be reluctant to evict a single mum for not paying their rent, even though they were being the money in benefits and using it elsewhere.
It would cost in the region of £1000 to get it to Court, and no sure way of knowing if it works.

The best the solicitor could come up with was to wait for the 2 months to come up again, and then send another £100 letter telling her we are taking her to Court.
All she is likely to then is pay up 2 or 3 days before and then it all starts again.

If I try anything, like trying to get her out earlier for another reason, I will be in trouble, even though she has broken the contract by not paying the rent on the due day(or the same month). If I want her out before the end of the contract I might also have to give her compensation and removal costs:mad:

Has anyone any bright, constructive, and only legal, ideas, tips, comments, suggestions, etc so I can get my head round this?

As I said at the beginning - please be gentle with me!!

Fishingtime

Sorry to hear of the trouble you are having.
I am not 100% sure but unless the tennant is 2 months in arrears there is not much you can do till the lease is up.
The problem with having the benefit paid directly to you is,(as I had) the tennant was found to be working and not entitled to the housing money,but as it was paid direct to me I had to repay it £600.
Now I have the tennant receive the money then pay me

ikati5

You probably won't like this but I worked for letting agent, a reputable guy who has actually written books about buying to let, if there was a bad tenant rather than go through the courts he would tell them if they left quietly he would give them a glowing reference and no more would be said. This did seem to work because they knew they wouldn't get a reference from him if he had to go to court and he was offering them a get out of jail free card.

I appreciate that it doesn't help you and that you may be on the poor end of this agreement. It must be worth a quiet word though just to get rid.

iheartbristol

ikati5 wrote: »

he would tell them if they left quietly he would give them a glowing reference and no more would be said.

I wonder if that's what happened in this case with the previous landlord of the OP's tennant!?

Hump

Don't waste your money on solicitors letters, spend the money on joining a landlord association and getting some advice - or buy a book - and you could ask your agent what they are doing to earn their fee, they ought to be able to advise you without suggesting you go to a solicitor.

Housing benefit is paid in arrears, either fortnightly or 4 weekly - so it's always going to be late unless the tenant was 'ahead' to start with - sounds like your one was but has slipped.

If the arrears are 2 months or greater (which isn't clear from your post) you could issue a Housing Act 1988 Section 8 notice citing ground 8 (and throw in grounds 10 and 11 for what they're worth). Plus you can apply to the local authority for rental payments direct. If the rent is less than 2 months then you could serve on grounds 10 and 11 but I wouldn't bother.

If the initial fixed term of the tenancy agreement has expired or is about to expire in the next couple of months then look to serve a s21 notice.

You don't have to follow through with Court action - the threat of homelessness might be sufficient for your tenant to mend their ways.

Actually what is your lettings agent doing?????

skintsue

iheartbristol wrote: »

I wonder if that's what happened in this case with the previous landlord of the OP's tennant!?

I suspect this is exactly what happened as the tricks that are being pulled are not those of an inexperienced problem tenant.

The first time she got over the 2 month late rental was when she was given the letter. It included 8,10 and 11.
She paid enough up to keep her under the 2 months since then, even though it's always late.
Section 11 (persistant lateness) is the one I wanted to use today, but the solicitor said that's discretionary on the Judge and could cost £1000 for nothing.
It is a 12 month contract so I'm only half way through, and not having much luck.
There are other issues as well, so hopefully one of those might be enough to have the contract ripped up.
If she is charged with an offence would that be classed as breaching the terms of the tenancy?

Hump - thanks for the advice about direct payments, I did question that, but I was told she had to give the okay for that, also after what yoxford2008 said about having to repay it when the tenant wasn't entitled to it, I am loathe to risk it, especially after what she has already been up to.
If she is getting HB she is not entitled to and they stop it, can I then get her out? Or do I chase after the guarantor for the last few months of rent?

My main concern is what she might do if she is kicked out. From what I've heard lately she and the rest of the family won't take it lying down.

Why Me?

skintsue

ikati5 wrote: »

if there was a bad tenant rather than go through the courts he would tell them if they left quietly he would give them a glowing reference and no more would be said.

Would it be worth offering them that to go, and once they were out, tell the truth!

Hump

If you produce a rent statement showing more than 8 weeks or more rental owing then the Council has to pay you direct - regardless of the tenant's wishes. See page 16/17 on
www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN03211.pdf

The HB regs changed a few years back to mean that the Council can only pursue the landlord if they consider the landlord was complicit in defrauding them i.e. you knew the tenant wasn't living there and you didn't tell them. Otherwise they now have to chase the tenant. Someone more uptodate with HB regs on this forum should be able to quote 'chapter and verse' (don't get me wrong, previously the Council could go after both the landlord and tenant in these circumstances).

See here http://www.cpag.org.uk/cro/wrb/wrb19...efit.htm#rec-a

[Deleted User]

Although the tenant is paid housing benefit either two weeks or four weeks in arrears, its not an excuse to pay the rent in arrears. I made sure I had some money in reserve to cover delays in the initial housing benefit payment. It made for a very difficult first month, but it can be done.

Its no wonder tenants like us have problems finding private rental housing with tenants like this around. I wish it were different.

skintsue

deannatrois wrote: »

Its no wonder tenants like us have problems finding private rental housing with tenants like this around. I wish it were different.

Thanks for that. It shows I was not as daft as I've been accused of being by renting to her. I wish you were my tenant.:A

I should have taken the more practical approach, but it was the kids I was concerned about - which is more than she seems to be.

Just because she is a single mum on benefits didn't mean she was no good.
It could have been due to leaving a violent relationship, widowed, lost her job, moved away from last location, we could all end up in a situation not of our making. I was trying to see beyond the negatives, but should have looked more closely at the reality.

What annnoys me is that I paid, via the letting agents, for a reference and credit check to be done on her by their 'stand alone' agents. This was meant to confirm that there were no horror stories in her background, she had good references, and wasn't in trouble with her bank.
When I brought this up all they came up with was 'well sometimes one slips through the net!:mad:

I am getting calls from the neighbours on a regular basis about what she, or the family and visitors are up to, and I feel dreadful for them. I have promised they will be out as soon as possible, but it looks like my hands are tied.

What sort of thing would they have to be doing for me to be able to get her kicked out ASAP, without there being any chance of fighting it? Without detailing what's going on I'm sure some of it might just be relevant in this case.
The stuff I have been hearing about makes me want to go round and grab everything she owns and chuck it on the street.
Bet she has changed the locks though, so we couldn't get in, even if the Judge awarded us possession with immediate effect.

princeofpounds

Hump has given you the right advice. Apply for direct payments and a section 8 notice if the overdues (note that it is rent overdue that matters, not rent in arrears - there is a difference) hit the required targets.

On the subject of eviction, it sounds like your lawyer is giving you fair advice - a nice sign - but you don't necessarily need one to pursue an eviction. You could do it more cheaply yourself, using material from one of the good landlord associations to educate yourself. Of course if you muck up then it can be more costly to start again, but even if you do eventually use a lawyer make sure you are involved in the process so you can handle it yourself in future.