ESA medical coming up

cit_k

NASA wrote: »

There is nothing at all to worry about.

The correct decision will be made based on the evidence in front of the decision maker.

What evidence do you have that is the case?

Even after the harrington review, I received a statement of reasons for an ESA claim that showed they had not considered anything other than the ATOS report.

NASA_2

cit_k wrote: »

What evidence do you have that is the case?

Even after the harrington review, I received a statement of reasons for an ESA claim that showed they had not considered anything other than the ATOS report.

I know it to be the case because the DWP are brilliant at their jobs and pretty much always make the right decision.

I doubt what you say is true because I believe you to be a serial liar.

cit_k

NASA wrote: »

I know it to be the case because the DWP are brilliant at their jobs and pretty much always make the right decision.

I doubt what you say is true because I believe you to be a serial liar.

Fair enough, Im convinved

rogerblack

aurongrande wrote: »

For 8 years now, I had been increasingly suffering from a mysterious condition which renders me unconscious. Up until last August, it only affected me once or twice a year, but then took a turn for the worse. I now fall unconscious on a regular basis.

Get as much documentary proof of this as you can.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/m-06-11.pdf - page 9, descriptor 10 - conciousness.
'At least once a week has an invoulantery episode of lost or altered conciousness'

This scores 15 points, and qualifies you for the WRAG group without needing any further points.
If it's once a month, and you suffer loss of bowel or bladder control at these times, then that gets you 12 points.
There would be arguments on descriptor 12 - 'awareness of everyday hazards'.
Similarly - 13 - 'frequently cannot due to impaired mental function reliably initiate or complete two personal actions' - you can't do this reliably if you're passed out.
And if it causes you problems socially, that too.

Now, for the support group.
Unfortunately, there is no simple conciousness descriptor.
If you have weekly loss of bladder or bowel control, that's one entry.
Awareness of hazard - you pose a danger to yourself and others when passing out - but this may be less strong.
The descriptors on the workplace behaviour are unfortunate.
They basically only consider people who are actively violent, or go around humping workmates.

aurongrande_2

So, from what you folks have said, these medical assessors don't fill out medical forms accurately, and modify them so that it appears that the person they're assessing is fit enough for work? They do this unless it is challenged on an individual basis?

Kind of sounds like Council Traffic Wardens who illegally hand out tickets, but won't refund or cancel the fines unless challenged.

I have made an appointment with my GP to discuss the matter with him, and to see if he would care to write a letter for the assessor to back me up.

Just a shame that I can't take all the family friends and strangers that have witnessed my condition to the meeting with me.

I just hope I have an episode in front of the assessor just so that they can see what's wrong with me. Then again, they may just ignore it and mark me down as being fit.

Can I walk? yes, but it varies in distance and speed.
Can I lift my arms above my head? yes, but I have limited movement in my right shoulder due to a traffic accident years ago.
Can I hold onto things? yes, but it depends if my condition is taking effect or not.
I could go on.

Would witness statements from people help me in the meeting?

Muttleythefrog

aurongrande wrote: »

So, from what you folks have said, these medical assessors don't fill out medical forms accurately, and modify them so that it appears that the person they're assessing is fit enough for work? They do this unless it is challenged on an individual basis?

Kind of sounds like Council Traffic Wardens who illegally hand out tickets, but won't refund or cancel the fines unless challenged.

I have made an appointment with my GP to discuss the matter with him, and to see if he would care to write a letter for the assessor to back me up.

Just a shame that I can't take all the family friends and strangers that have witnessed my condition to the meeting with me.

I just hope I have an episode in front of the assessor just so that they can see what's wrong with me. Then again, they may just ignore it and mark me down as being fit.

Can I walk? yes, but it varies in distance and speed.
Can I lift my arms above my head? yes, but I have limited movement in my right shoulder due to a traffic accident years ago.
Can I hold onto things? yes, but it depends if my condition is taking effect or not.
I could go on.

Would witness statements from people help me in the meeting?

I think part of their accuracy problem is because of deficient medical expertise.. in part political/corporate pressures, in part the fact it is a software driven assessment and in part the fact it is under the unusual circumstances of the event that includes time as key factor. They can be very extrapolative of 'established facts' and simplistic in their expectations of particular conditions. The fact they're staring at a computer screen a hefty proportion of the time gives them limited opportunity to study claimant - and as a result not surprisingly they can make observations based on lack of observing rather than lack of something to observe.

That said, things hopefully are improving in some factors. The best thing to do is just be careful in answering the questions.. but answer them honestly. Many people have a fine experience of the medical although even in many of those cases there no doubt will be errors in the medical report regardless of integrity of the HCP who did it.

In terms of additional evidence. Well it's important to remember that the person who does the medical doesn't decide your benefit entitlement - although one problem of the process that was identified is that it too heavily relied upon that medical report. The decision will be taken by a Decision maker at DWP who will use the medical report from ATOS as a key piece of evidence. It's important that any other valid evidence be presented into the process if is available... ideally as soon as possible... a good juncture is when sending back ESA50 form.

Witness statements... not sure if the assessor will waste too much time reading things of this nature unless pertinent... but they could be sent to the decision maker and in this case may be useful since the condition is unusual/not recognised... and they therefore won't have their ailments guide to refer to for typical information regarding the condition. A GP statement is something that they may well read and copy if faced with it at medical - the fact your condition is undiagnosed may make this particularly useful since it would rather refute any notion that you've just conjured up some imaginary illness which has no name because it isn't real. It can really help if you have evidence of conditions if those conditions could be dismissed easily... for example claiming clinical depression... anyone can do that but they're going to find it harder to conclude you don't have depression if you've got a psychiatrist letter saying therapy might help with your depression or a GP statement saying you are currently on 40mg of Citalopram for mental health problems.

The important thing is ultimately showing which descriptors apply... for all parties.. you, the medical assessor at ATOS and the Decision Maker at DWP. It's crucial not to lose focus on this through the process of a WCA.

If you're claiming to have, for example, walking problems and are asked if you can walk... I would advise against answering 'yes...but'. I would suggest instead saying I have problems walking because of X and so can't do Y. If you state yes then there is a chance they'll record 'customer states no problem with walking' and be clicking onto the next screen while they ignore what they may simply regard as waffle or your attempts to correct an unfortunate revelation. Similarly if you claim to have social anxiety disorder and they politely ask you if you've had a nice journey in to the centre today as you walk to the assessment room then a bad answer would be 'yes, lovely.. thanks for asking.. I just caught the bus after having a stroll around town'.

You can take someone with you to the medical... someone else will overcome my temporary memory block and say here whether that has to be stated in advance via reference on the ESA50 or otherwise.

cit_k

Yes, send witness statements to both atos and the DWP.

Out of interest, I checked the actual position on this, regarding the assessor reading documents...

Direct from page 37 of the assessors ESA handbook

It is important to allow sufficient time for the assessment to be carried out so that the report is completed to the required standards.
There are four stages in the ESA LCW/LCWRA Assessment. These are:-

Reading the documents;

Interviewing the claimant;

Examining the claimant and

Completing the medical report form(s).
3.1.2
Reading the Documents

In preparation for the interview, you should read carefully the documents in the file /on MSRS.
All the medical evidence should be considered, including any medical certification, Factual Reports, previous papers and other documents, including Tribunal documents.
Particular attention must be paid to the current claimant questionnaire [ESA 5O] and all areas where the claimant indicates that there may be a problem must be fully explored.
At times the claimant may also bring additional evidence to the assessment.
Any evidence bought by the claimant must be read and the report should make reference to the evidence that has been considered and justification provided if there is a conflict between the opinion of the HCP and the other medical evidence. Any evidence brought by the claimant, should be copied for the Decision Maker

daing

I dont know where these horror stories come from. I can only say that I had to go to Bootle centre for my ESA medical and was treated with utmost courtesy.
The waiting room chairs had ARMS - I read one forum stating they used armless chairs on purpose to see if you sit and get up without them - RUBBISH.
I was kept waiting approx 5 mins before the examiner came to get me -not over30mins as has been reported elsewhere in these forums.
there were no 'trick' questions. i was simply asked what symptoms I suffered from and to describe an average day in my life. The examiner was attentive and not ignorant atall.
She then carried out a quick physical exam: dexterity of hands, can i stand, can I sit on exam couch, reflex tests on knees... and thats it.
If you tell the truth then you will be assessed correctly.
All this stuff about virtual cripples being deemed fit for work because they can pick up a pound coin from the floor is total GARBAGE.
I did everything that was physically asked to do with no problem.
However, I told the TRUTH about my illness and daily life and was notified this week (5weeks after exam) that I have been placed in the support group.
So anyone facing a future medical, please take the horror stories with a pich of salt. Chances are they are started by benefit cheats who have been 'found out'.

Cpt.Scarlet

daing wrote: »

I dont know where these horror stories come from. I can only say that I had to go to Bootle centre for my ESA medical and was treated with utmost courtesy.
The waiting room chairs had ARMS - I read one forum stating they used armless chairs on purpose to see if you sit and get up without them - RUBBISH.
I was kept waiting approx 5 mins before the examiner came to get me -not over30mins as has been reported elsewhere in these forums.
there were no 'trick' questions. i was simply asked what symptoms I suffered from and to describe an average day in my life. The examiner was attentive and not ignorant atall.
She then carried out a quick physical exam: dexterity of hands, can i stand, can I sit on exam couch, reflex tests on knees... and thats it.
If you tell the truth then you will be assessed correctly.
All this stuff about virtual cripples being deemed fit for work because they can pick up a pound coin from the floor is total GARBAGE.
I did everything that was physically asked to do with no problem.
However, I told the TRUTH about my illness and daily life and was notified this week (5weeks after exam) that I have been placed in the support group.
So anyone facing a future medical, please take the horror stories with a pich of salt. Chances are they are started by benefit cheats who have been 'found out'.

I am really pleased that you had no problems with your assessment, the majority of claimants do, however, a significant minority do not, and not as you would seem to suggest, because they really do not qualify, but because evidence is ignored, assumptions not based on available evidence are made, and occassionally the facts of an examination are mis-represented in the medical report.

10,000s of decisions are overturned at appeal, infact 40% of appeals are found in favour of the claimant, this is not indicative of a system that is working well or fairly.

rogerblack

daing wrote: »

All this stuff about virtual cripples being deemed fit for work because they can pick up a pound coin from the floor is total GARBAGE.
<snip>
So anyone facing a future medical, please take the horror stories with a pich of salt. Chances are they are started by benefit cheats who have been 'found out'.

The problem is NOT with ATOS, as many make out.
The problem is that the test is not a test of fitness for work.

Take two people.
One can barely work a washing machine, can communicate only simple concepts, has some difficulty finding their way around outside, constantly mutters to themselves and has problems with personal hygiene
The other person is a well-educated university graduate, who has recently left a 50k/year desk job in an industry in which there are plenty of vacancies, but they get epileptic seizures leading to blackouts once a week (of which they have plenty of warning).

The first is, under the current rules is more capable of work than the second.

Then there is the issue that the 'work related' group are implicitly expected to get better, though many in this group will be in it for life, due to their condition being one that the DWP agree will never improve.

Are there problems with ATOS - sure.

A major part of the problem is the simplistic assessment, and the lack of 'joined up' governance, in that you can be found fit by ESA, and be unable to legally claim JSA.