Npower Super tariff confusion please help!!!

blooleg

Hi Everyone. We have been on Npowers Domestic Super tariff (Storage heaters get a boost in the afternoon) My electric bills seem steep. Not from the cheaper heat element but I seem to use rather a lot of power on the usual day rate. (We have three rates Day, Night & Heat)

Firstly its the Night rate thats confusing me. When is it actually active> I get the impression that though I am running my BM and condenser drier alot at night I am missing this period some of the time

Secondly How do people on this tariff get to swap? None of the online systems to check rates have the ability to deal with 2 supply numbers.

I tried to swaop to scottish power about 3 times and each time it got cancelled. I finally found out that scottish power wont supply that tariff outside their own region. That doesnt sound very fair and amounts to a cartel in my book as when I found the rates for their version it was nearly identical.

Perhaps I would be better on e7? They are new storge heaters

Many Thanks

Chris

Cardew

There is no easy way to determine the exact times your supply switches between the various tariff Rates. Some houses are switched remotely and others by a clock timer in the house. The clock on that timer can be hours slow so it switches over much later than it is supposed to; and switches back later.
To determine the exact times you will need to watch the meter changing.

It seems a lot of firms dislike the E10 tariff and try to discourage people from using it - there is a thread currently running about one such case.

The only way to determine if E7 would be cheaper than E10 is to determine how much you have used on each tariff over the past year and then do some arithmetic with the various tariffs.
E7 seems to suit people who are out all day as their heating doesn't run out until late in the evenings..

blooleg

Thanks for the info cardew. I think it is switch remotley as it is always on the nail in the afternoon. I suppose the key question is do they vary the times it is switched on an off at night because if its variabkle it makes life expensive when you have a 3kw condenser dryer!!. If anyone knows how this domestic super tariff works at night let me know! Trying to find out from NPower is proving something of a challenge

Bob_Sprocket

Hi,

We recently moved into a house that has Npower's Super Tariff. The previous owner left me a file with original details and terms of use etc. I have checked this out by staying up late and getting up early and this is how it works in my house.

I have two meters each of which has a low and high rate setting. One supplies the heating ie storage rads, immersion heater and electric Aga. The other does everything else.

A couple of nights ago the heating one clicked over to "Low" at 1.30 am and the supply board started to hum and the meter turned very fast, it clicked off at 6.30 am. The night light came on the Aga at 1.30am and went off at 6.30am. It therefore looks like the heat side meter acts as a switch and the heating circuits are only supplied during this time and 2pm to 4pm in the afternoon. The original Northern Electric terms say that you get a 5 hour supply at night and a 2 hour boost in the afternoon at times of the companies choosing.

The "everything else" meter clicks to low at 12 midnight and back to normal at 7am, just like normal Economy7. The only difference is that this does not supply your heating.

The current tariff rates are:

First 728 units 21.68p
Normal Day 10.48p
Normal night 4.21p
Heating 5.07p

Note you pay 5.07p for heating even at night.

The Northern Electric 1991 terms had the following tariff.
Quarterly charge £15.58
Day units 8.12p
Night units 3.2p
Heat units 2.35p

The split of these unit rates and particularly the fact that heating units are cheaper than night units makes perfect sense to me. I can't see how they can now justify charging more for heat units at night than the normal Economy7. If you work it out you are paying 5 x 0.83p extra at night for heating compared with using the night rate. ie 4.15p which makes the afternoon boost, in reality cost you 7.15p. The point I'm making is that they are clawing back some of the cheap afternoon boost by charging you over the odds at night.

I hope that this information helps.

Cheers

Bob

blooleg

That gives me all the information I need Bob MAny Than ks for taking the time to do that Regards Chris Bugby

Cardew

Bob_Sprocket wrote:

Hi,

We recently moved into a house that has Npower's Super Tariff. The previous owner left me a file with original details and terms of use etc. I have checked this out by staying up late and getting up early and this is how it works in my house.

I have two meters each of which has a low and high rate setting. One supplies the heating ie storage rads, immersion heater and electric Aga. The other does everything else.

A couple of nights ago the heating one clicked over to "Low" at 1.30 am and the supply board started to hum and the meter turned very fast, it clicked off at 6.30 am. The night light came on the Aga at 1.30am and went off at 6.30am. It therefore looks like the heat side meter acts as a switch and the heating circuits are only supplied during this time and 2pm to 4pm in the afternoon. The original Northern Electric terms say that you get a 5 hour supply at night and a 2 hour boost in the afternoon at times of the companies choosing.

The "everything else" meter clicks to low at 12 midnight and back to normal at 7am, just like normal Economy7. The only difference is that this does not supply your heating.

The current tariff rates are:

First 728 units 21.68p
Normal Day 10.48p
Normal night 4.21p
Heating 5.07p

Note you pay 5.07p for heating even at night.

The Northern Electric 1991 terms had the following tariff.
Quarterly charge £15.58
Day units 8.12p
Night units 3.2p
Heat units 2.35p

The split of these unit rates and particularly the fact that heating units are cheaper than night units makes perfect sense to me. I can't see how they can now justify charging more for heat units at night than the normal Economy7. If you work it out you are paying 5 x 0.83p extra at night for heating compared with using the night rate. ie 4.15p which makes the afternoon boost, in reality cost you 7.15p. The point I'm making is that they are clawing back some of the cheap afternoon boost by charging you over the odds at night.

I hope that this information helps.

Cheers

Bob

Welcome to the forum and for a comprehensive explanation.

I would point out that if the OP is in a different geographic area the tariff will be different; although the principle is likely to be the same.

It seems to me that you are paying very high rates with NPower and that E7 with another company might be a better option.

Take the much criticised BG Standard tariff. The rates in England(including VAT) vary according to area between:

First 225 kWh(per quarter) 22.447p/kWh to 27.131p/kWh

Normal rate, 12.181p/kWh to 13.787p/kWh

Economy 7, 2.537p/kWh to 2.894p/kWh

The huge saving on heating and night tariffs just might mean it would cancel out the losses on cheaper day rates and enable a boost on normal day rates to be viable???

There should be cheaper options than BG Standard rates as well.

Worth doing some arithmetic??

blooleg

Good Morning Guys I have just done some interesting calculations based on the last five days that I think are fairly typical. I have always been interested in this sort of thing and it is my high rate of day use that originally prompted me to start this thread. We are wholly electric. My village doesnt have gas!

Comparing the 2 tarriffs I get the following (no vat with a correction for the few units at the very high rates)

NP Domestic Super
Day £16
Night £2.10
Heat £6

£144 +vat per month

BG E7 at the highest you quoted

E7 £5.22
Day £23

£168 +vat per month
Obviously its significantly worse which is what I expected given the rather high amount of day power we seem to use. I think we have a cooling tower at drax set aside for us!

In fact this weeks little test was after I made a few mods to reduce consumtion and those results are actually an improvement. The only other thing I can think of doing is replacing the 7 * 40w spotlights in the 2 kids rooms. They are ALWAYS left on!! If those 11w bulbs last 10000 hours as they claim that would save me £200 over the lifetime of the bulbs I reckon

Thanks again for your help

Chris

Cardew

blooleg wrote:

Good Morning Guys I have just done some interesting calculations based on the last five days that I think are fairly typical. I have always been interested in this sort of thing and it is my high rate of day use that originally prompted me to start this thread. We are wholly electric. My village doesnt have gas!

Comparing the 2 tarriffs I get the following (no vat with a correction for the few units at the very high rates)

NP Domestic Super
Day £16
Night £2.10
Heat £6

£124 +vat per month

BG E7 at the highest you quoted

E7 £5.22
Day £23

£168 +vat per month
Obviously its significantly worse which is what I expected given the rather high amount of day power we seem to use. I think we have a cooling tower at drax set aside for us!

In fact this weeks little test was after I made a few mods to reduce consumtion and those results are actually an improvement. The only other thing I can think of doing is replacing the 7 * 40w spotlights in the 2 kids rooms. They are ALWAYS left on!! If those 11w bulbs last 10000 hours as they claim that would save me £200 over the lifetime of the bulbs I reckon

Thanks again for your help

Chris

Blooleg,
Can you explain your arithmetic to me please.

As I understand your post those results were over a period of 5 days; so assuming a 30 day month you need to multiply them by 6? If so:

NP total(£16=£2.10+£6) is £24.10 x 6 = £144.60 x VAT = £151.83

The BG prices I quoted included VAT.

BG total(£5.22 + £23) is £28.22 x 6 = £169.32

Or have I misunderstood?

As you say you have a very high usage during the day. From your figures it would appear that you are using approx 1,000kWh a month for electricity during the day which excludes electricity for heating and hot water.

Surely something is wrong there? Are you sure that you are not using day electricity for heating and hot water somehow?

blooleg

Hi. Yes I concur with your figures. I made a bit of an error.

I have done a guestimate audit (should have done it before!!) Curiously comes out close to 1000 kw in the winter. If I am right I have rather underestimates the cost of running 3 x 3Kw rads in the bedrooms running on tickover at 30%

Heres an estimate of day use (i CANT GET THE FIGURES TO SIT RIGHT IN THIS THREAD! :

1st figure is estimate of kw per hour, 2nd is no hours and 3rd is total kw per day

KwperHr Hours Total Kw
rads 3 6 18
fridge 0.06 24 1.44
cooker 3 2 6
3 pc's 0.5 8 4
lights 50w 0.2 6 1.2
lights 11w 0.15 8 1.2

= 32kw pday 955 pmonth £90 winter day use

= 14 kw pday 415 pmonth £39 summer

Dishwasher Dryer WM Emersion all at night

If thats right it all looks a bit obvious. If I replaced the rads with 1.7 Kw storage heaters, the most they would cost is £45 a month on Super Tarriff if they were running flat out. More likely to be running at 50% in bedrooms which I estimate would save £25 a month of my bill

One needs to do a little thinking!!!!

ancasta_2

Bit late to the discussion, but im on E7, i work for the company im supplied by so i know the tariffs very well, and i find that works best for me. I too have night storage heaters.