Bastwards

chris_p_bacon

Hello

I'm after some advice and opinions please.

I've been self employed for 25 years and employ a couple of people.

I supply restaurants, mostly large chains.

A small chain of 6 restaurants (A) which is profitable was sold by a much larger also profitable chain of 130 restaurants (B).

(A) has said it will only pay me for the last months invoices £4.5k
and (B) has said all its older liabilities (10k) belong to the new owner (A).

Who do you think I should sue, (B) who originally ordered the goods or (A) who have taken ownership.

Thank you for your time.

btw The director of B recently sold his stake to buy A. :mad:

crazyguy

you should sue whom ever you supplied to, so if A had ordered it is there responsability and if it were B then it would be theres, they cannot pass the buck between them you need to go back to the person you had the dealings with and state its there debt and to pay up or you will take legal action.

chris_p_bacon

Thanks Crazyguy. This is the reply I've had back from them.


The (A) Limited is no longer owned by B Ltd (formerly named The C*** H*** Group ) and the new owners have moved (A) to new offices. Below are contact details that (A) have asked us to pass on.

Supplies you made to (A) were made under contract with (A) and any liabilities of (A) are (A)'s responsibility. You will need to take up this up with (A)'s new management.

crazyguy

The other thing here could be that when B purchased A they may have done so with the full knowledge of any outstanding debts owed and agreed that they were accontable for them. if A is saying deal directly with B then they probably did not purchase the said Company with the outstanding debts and it looks like they are attempting to wrangle out of the debt.

You could be better off getting a written document from A stating the terms of there purchase did not include any debts and then post off with a letter stating its to be paid in full within 7 working days and if they fail to do so then you will commence with legal action.

chris_p_bacon

CG You have hit the nail on the head. B knew all about A's debts because they hare essentially the same people. It complicates it, ...but just to say, the MD of (A) originally sold it to B and became the MD of B. He has now left B and bought A back for the second time.

Its obviously being done as some big tax dodge and to screw as many suppliers in the process as possible, but it makes me angry and tbh quite upset when I think how much hard work and good will I've given these people.

I suppose my concern is that if i go after the people who ordered the goods they will say in court they had a 'special agreement' with B about the liabilities when they sold. If I go after the new owners (themselves again) they will blame B. I can't really sue both A and B so I could spend a lot of money and time while they wriggle out of responsibility by blaming each other (who is essentially themselves) in the way they are doing right now with me.

Hope some of that made sence. I know there are no easy answers. I've been agonising over this over the past few nights. I think my best bet is probably to loose the money but keep the business, thats what they're banking on I expect.

crazyguy

If it were me I would tell them that unless they pay up or at least the vast majority of the debt owed that you will either raise court action against them or send round some nasty looking debt collectors on your behalf,

If you are looking at going through the courts for nearer side of 15k it will be expensive, but you never no the threat of legal action could scare them into paying, even if its only a percentage back its better than nothing.

I had a case with a customer who closed his company down and reopened the next day under a new name and basicaly I told them that in order to keep dealing with me they must aggree to pay the previous invoices owed, all I did was credit the actual profit I made and re invoice in the new company name they then paid in full and I just restricted the credit given to them there after.

texranger

chris_p_bacon wrote: »

Hello

I'm after some advice and opinions please.

I've been self employed for 25 years and employ a couple of people.

I supply restaurants, mostly large chains.

A small chain of 6 restaurants (A) which is profitable was sold by a much larger also profitable chain of 130 restaurants (B).

(A) has said it will only pay me for the last months invoices £4.5k
and (B) has said all its older liabilities (10k) belong to the new owner (A).

Who do you think I should sue, (B) who originally ordered the goods or (A) who have taken ownership.

Thank you for your time.

btw The director of B recently sold his stake to buy A. :mad:

i wuld say it depends on when the invoice was issued. If the goods were ordered by (B) and delivered to (A) and the invoice issued to (B) before they sold (A) then it is (B) who should pay.

another scenerio If you ordered something online on credit but had these goods delivered to your parents house, who pays for the goods, you as you ordered them or your parents as they received the delivery. I bet you come up with the same answer as Me. YOU as you ordered them.

so in your case you sue whoever placed the order and not where the goods were deliverd too

bengalknights

You could try the £3 template from Thomas Higgins and Co.For some strange reason alot of large corporations get scared and pay up straight away when they see a letter from them.

chris_p_bacon

Thank you everyone. Apart from getting some really good advice I'm feeling better just getting it off my chest. :j

I suppose really, the bottom line is if I sue these people it will be the end of our business relationship. This particular group are looking to expand massively in to next year 'growing the brand' and it will generate a lot of business for me.

I wanted to fire back a really angry email this morning but what I coming round to thinking is that I may have to accept the situation in order to stay as the supplier. I know it sounds bonkers but on paper it makes sense (I think). Also on reflection opportunities will arise in the future when I can to put it bluntly, ...'get my own back'. Sad but probably true. No more Mr Nice Guy.

texranger

chris_p_bacon wrote: »

Thank you everyone. Apart from getting some really good advice I'm feeling better just getting it off my chest. :j

I suppose really, the bottom line is if I sue these people it will be the end of our business relationship. This particular group are looking to expand massively in to next year 'growing the brand' and it will generate a lot of business for me.

I wanted to fire back a really angry email this morning but what I coming round to thinking is that I may have to accept the situation in order to stay as the supplier. I know it sounds bonkers but on paper it makes sense (I think). Also on reflection opportunities will arise in the future when I can to put it bluntly, ...'get my own back'. Sad but probably true. No more Mr Nice Guy.

sadly thats true, be too agressive and you could lose their custom, but as you say 'No more Mr Nice Guy' be strict with them on invoice due dates etc.

chris_p_bacon

I will be strict from now on, I suppose I've been lucky this hasn't happened to me before and I've learnt my lesson. I think the key point is to stop all supplies when invoices go over 60 days. On large orders I'm going to make a point of phoning the financial director who sent me that email (and has never met me) to check he's not planning to syphon off the company after I've supplied it again. ....I won't be as blunt as that, but he'll know where I'm coming from and I won't let them forget it.

Thanks again for your help and thoughts. It has helped me to put things in to perspective. You live and learn I guess.