Means test after death.

Joseph_Bloggs_2

They always get you in the end.
I recently acted as executor for a close relative who had been living in a care home. She was receiving LA support financially, plus state pension and pension credit.
When the probate office issued probate on her will the DWP wrote to me (exec) putting a stop on distribution of the estate until they had checked that the figures given for probate tied in with the figures given when she was means tested for PC and for LA support. Her bank account showed roughly the correct figures, so distribution could go ahead.
Had she had an undeclared account for example, presumably DWP would have claimed on the estate for any benefits wrongly paid.
If there had been a shortfall and there were insufficient funds in the estate to pay back overpayments who would have been liable? Or would they have been satisfied with what was available?

RAS

if the debts exceed the value of the funds in the estate, they are written off.

Oldernotwiser

Joseph_Bloggs wrote: »

They always get you in the end.

One would certainly hope so!

dafyguy

RAS wrote: »

if the debts exceed the value of the funds in the estate, they are written off.

It would be a bankrupt estate.

patman99

So, what would happen if the letter arrived the day after the estate had been divided according to the will ?.

nannytone_2

then whoever received the money would have to pay.

rogerblack

nannytone wrote: »

then whoever received the money would have to pay.

If in fact the money was owed.
The DWPs calculation of overpayments can be in error.

It not infrequently does 'simple' calculations that neglect the actual law, in addition to making factual errors.

Overpayments made as a result of official error may not be recoverable, and there are provisions in the law that for example if you have a moderately large capital sum, and are paid CTB when you would not be eligable due to that sum, the amount to be recovered drops significantly when the provisions for diminishing the capital are used.
The capital is for overpayment purposes treated as diminishing at the rate that council tax should have been paid.
This is just one example of how benefits entitlement is complex, and overpayments may not be calculated properly.

People have gone to prison for large overpayments, and later found out that the overpayment was considerably smaller due to incorrect calculation - leading to them serving time, when the smaller amount would not have lead to a prison sentence.

dafyguy

patman99 wrote: »

So, what would happen if the letter arrived the day after the estate had been divided according to the will ?.

That can never happen if the estate is correctly dealt with.

dafyguy

rogerblack wrote: »

People have gone to prison for large overpayments, and later found out that the overpayment was considerably smaller due to incorrect calculation - leading to them serving time, when the smaller amount would not have lead to a prison sentence.

Why not? Irrespective of the amount involved, fraud is fraud!

So according to your method of sentencing. A guy that goes into a post office with a knife in his hand and threatens the counter staff with it, but only manages to steal £100, is not such a bad criminal and shouldn't go to prison because of the amount he swiped, but if he had taken £10,000 he should?

rogerblack

dafyguy wrote: »

Why not? Irrespective of the amount involved, fraud is fraud!

So according to your method of sentencing. A guy that goes into a post office with a knife in his hand and threatens the counter staff with it, but only manages to steal £100, is not such a bad criminal and shouldn't go to prison because of the amount he swiped, but if he had taken £10,000 he should?

All overpayments are not fraud.
Benefits are complex, and often poorly understood.
The DWP make errors, staff inform people of things wrongly, lose papers, ...

If someone has been informed by the DWP that they qualify for a benefit, when they did not, then the DWP will often later ask for recovery of this overpayment.

However.
If the benefit was made as an official error, this overpayment may not be recoverable.
And if they were instead entitled to a different benefit, and the DWP should have informed them of this at the time, then even if the person should have noticed they were on the wrong benefit, the overpayment is the difference between the two benefit levels.

In the case of fraud sentencing decisions do take note of the amount defrauded.

If the DWP have not properly calculated the amount of the overpayment, then the person will be sentenced more severely than they should be.

On the wider point - do I believe that fraud should be cracked down on - yes!
But error by the DWP is larger than fraud on all the actual figures I've seen.
It would make sense to crack down on error harder - but this does not make for as good headlines.

thistledome

dafyguy wrote: »

A guy that goes into a post office with a knife in his hand and threatens the counter staff with it, but only manages to steal £100, is not such a bad criminal and shouldn't go to prison because of the amount he swiped, but if he had taken £10,000 he should?

People like you should learn how to argue. Armed robbery is a very different crime to overpayment of benefit. Your analogy is nonsensical.