Orange/Phones4U issues - contract break?

cozwin

Hi everyone,

I signed up to a £20 a month deal (inc vat) via phones4u with orange, I recently noticed that every single of the last ten months has gone out at £21.94, I checked my bills and this extra states vat, I contacted phones4u who stated this was wrong and I should contact orange.

As my contract clearly states that it is £20 inc vat (says in my paperwork) is it possible to use this as a get out clause for my contract as orange has broken the contract by overcharging me on purpose every month?

Thanks.

simax

Do you get an itemised bill? What's the breakdown?

If you're on a £20 plan and it is listed as such, then no, not a leg to stand on. It'll be an extra charge, like Itemised Bills or the like..

Bear in mind, if you took the contract out before the VAT increase in January, then your bill will be £20.42 because of the VAT increase.

Actually that makes sense now thinking about it

£20.42 Line Rental
£1.52 Itemised Billing

= £21.94

Solution - Cancel the itemised billing. That'll take you down to £20.42.

cozwin

nope, no itemised bills, but online bills says clearly that no extra charges.

Also the contract states that it is 20 inc vat and nothing more etc, so if this changes it is a break of this surely.

gjchester

cozwin wrote: »

Hi everyone,

I signed up to a £20 a month deal (inc vat) via phones4u with orange, I recently noticed that every single of the last ten months has gone out at £21.94, I checked my bills and this extra states vat, I contacted phones4u who stated this was wrong and I should contact orange.

As my contract clearly states that it is £20 inc vat (says in my paperwork) is it possible to use this as a get out clause for my contract as orange has broken the contract by overcharging me on purpose every month?

Thanks.

You need to take it up with P4U who sold you the contract. They are the people who you need to talk to as they are the retailers.

However as you've not noticed it for 10 months you'll be in a weak position as you should have at least checked your bills before now...

DVardysShadow

cozwin wrote: »

... As my contract clearly states that it is £20 inc vat (says in my paperwork) is it possible to use this as a get out clause for my contract as orange has broken the contract by overcharging me on purpose every month?

No, the contract has not been broken in any meaningful way which cannot be put right. You are entitled to a refund.

gjchester wrote: »

... However as you've not noticed it for 10 months you'll be in a weak position as you should have at least checked your bills before now...

Actually, in a strong position to claim back the overpayments for 6 years.

Naf

cozwin wrote: »

I signed up to a £20 a month deal (inc vat) via phones4u with orange, I recently noticed that every single of the last ten months has gone out at £21.94, I checked my bills and this extra states vat, I contacted phones4u who stated this was wrong and I should contact orange.

2 things; your contract is not 'via phones4u'. You purchased it through them, but your contract is directly with Orange, P4U only have responsibility for the handset they gave you.

cozwin wrote: »

As my contract clearly states that it is £20 inc vat (says in my paperwork) is it possible to use this as a get out clause for my contract as orange has broken the contract by overcharging me on purpose every month?

The VAT increase affects this; they're not overcharging you, they're charging you exactly the same amount, but the government now charge more VAT

cozwin wrote: »

nope, no itemised bills, but online bills says clearly that no extra charges.

Also the contract states that it is 20 inc vat and nothing more etc, so if this changes it is a break of this surely.

They'll have a clause buried in the T&Cs somewhere that says they can pass on any VAT (or other tax) increases, regardless that this might increase over the contracted amount.

gjchester wrote: »

You need to take it up with P4U who sold you the contract. They are the people who you need to talk to as they are the retailers.

However as you've not noticed it for 10 months you'll be in a weak position as you should have at least checked your bills before now...

No, this is regarding the billing; P4U have nothing whatever to do with billing as the contract is directly with Orange. P4U act more like a broker with regards the airtime contract, but they retail the handsets.

EDIT: You need to ask Orange exactly why the new tax is so high, as clearly this is more than 2.5% increase. I will dig out my most recent contract (only about 3 months old) and see what the T&Cs have to say.

gizzi.n.lemon

Your tariff was taken before January as the Dolphin 20 which at the time was 20 per month. If you get your bills through the post that also adds a £1.50 charge to your bill. VAT then pushes this up to £21.94. Nowhere on your Orange account will it state "no more than £20". I'm on the Panther 30 websave and I pay £28.08 per month. If you aren't getting the bills in the post you should check Orange have the right address for you. If you moved and forgot to change it I would do it quick as having your statements sent to an old address could leave your account open to fraudsters.

Naf

As above, you don't have to have requested itemised bills anymore: if you get any firm of posted bill, it costs you now.

gjchester

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Actually, in a strong position to claim back the overpayments for 6 years.

Good luck. There is a requirement to all contracts that that both parties take due care and attention. Not checking your bills would not class as due care and attention.

Think another way, would it be expected that the average man in the street will not check his bills. If he misses a month maybe, two months possible, 3 months could happen if away, but to not check for 10 months is more than you would expect.

Naf wrote: »

2 things; your contract is not 'via phones4u'. You purchased it through them, but your contract is directly with Orange, P4U only have responsibility for the handset they gave you.

Sorry no.

You have no contractual agreement with Orange, it's all through P4U who act as Oranges agent.

In many cases Orange will be faster at and better placed to deal and resolve queries but that doesnt change the fact P4U sold the contract and are responsible for it.

Naf

gjchester wrote: »

You have no contractual agreement with Orange, it's all through P4U who act as Oranges agent.

In many cases Orange will be faster at and better placed to deal and resolve queries but that doesn't change the fact P4U sold the contract and are responsible for it.

Not true. When purchasing goods with services, it is the service provider (in this case Orange) who are legally responsible for both.
Quoting from Here on this site:

Martin wrote:

"if the goods supplied as part of the service become faulty, it's the service provider that's responsible for sorting the problems, not the supplier of the goods"

Although you can go back to Phones4U for a repair of your handset, and they will do it free of charge (within warranty), the Supply of Goods and Services Act says your mobile service provider is responsible for both.
Phones4U have no access whatsoever to any of your details held with Orange, and have no way to access these. They could phone the network on your behalf, but the network will still need to speak to you to do security checks; just P4U might know what to ask better than you would. Maybe.

Naf

Also from Direct.gov:

Government wrote:

"
If you want to make a complaint about your phone, you need to make sure you contact the right company.
You should complain to the:

• seller if the handset is faulty
• network service provider if there is a fault with the network or SIM card"