Thinking of buying gold bars !!

sabretoothtigger

The gold content then was fixed at 113 grains (7.322 g), equivalent to 0.2354 troy ounce, a weight which has remained constant to the present day

That is a pretty small amount of gold and sovereigns are still worth over 250. Shows how little our money is worth now when this was just 1 pound a hundred years ago.

No wonder old people go on about doing their shopping with 1 penny :laugh:

lvader

Geoff23 wrote: »

There is no point in buying small gold bars in the UK. You have to pay capital gains tax on them. Buy sovereigns and there is no CGT.

Not really a big issue unless you go above the allowance. Something I've never done or even likely to. Gold is gold and the premium on soveriegns is pretty high.

sabretoothtigger

Surely the premium or spread of small gold bars is just as bad. I dont think sovereigns are dealt like antiques


yep coin is cheaper then a 5g bar vs spot

bar is 40.916 per gram
coin is 39.071 per gram of pure gold

1000gram bar is 36.49 on coininvest

The point about CGT allowance is they may not raise it in line with inflation. So if we did repeat the 70's and get 30% inflation then to make any money you have to be sure there is no impact to your tax allowance from realising a 30% gain. Thats just to break even
If you put a house deposit into gold and then pay CGT on inflation adjusted prices thats going to hurt.

Is CGT index linked ?

Geoff23

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Surely the premium or spread of small gold bars is just as bad. I dont think sovereigns are dealt like antiques

The rules change if the coin in question is worth more to a coin collector than the value of the gold. In the case of sovereigns, this applies to quite a few of the older Victorian coins and those with mint marks - coins which were minted in Australia, South Africa or Canada. These are effectively antiques.

efutures

buddy143 wrote: »

Just looking at the gold prices, I am thinking of buying 2 gold bars (each 100grams) in Birmingham.
anybody had any experience? Can we make any bargaining? I know in India, we do it but is it the same here as well in the jewellery quarter?

I genuinely believe silver is a better investment right now. Try a little of each and see which one outperforms the other.

Geoff23

Ade67 wrote: »

Are old sovereigns worth more than brand news one.

Depends on the year, the condition and whether or not they have a mintmark.

Done a little research and have heard differently. I was under the impression they held a premium when they're brand new as well as when they're very old. Anything else in between held no premium, just matches the spot price of gold.

Mostly, yes.

shaun_from_Africa

Geoff23 wrote: »

The rules change if the coin in question is worth more to a coin collector than the value of the gold. In the case of sovereigns, this applies to quite a few of the older Victorian coins and those with mint marks - coins which were minted in Australia, South Africa or Canada. These are effectively antiques.

Are you sure about this?
I know that the rules on investment gold being VAT free state that if the value of the coin is more than 1.8 times the value of the gold (as for rare or obscure collectors coins) then it no longer classes as investment gold and VAT is chargable, but I'm pretty sure that there is no such diferentiation made with regards to CGT on UK legal tender coinage.
Irrespective of any mint marks or the rarity of coin, provided it is classed as legal tender in the UK then it will be exempt from CGT and any sovereign minted after 1837 falls into this category.

Geoff23

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

Are you sure about this?
I know that the rules on investment gold being VAT free state that if the value of the coin is more than 1.8 times the value of the gold (as for rare or obscure collectors coins) then it no longer classes as investment gold and VAT is chargable, but I'm pretty sure that there is no such diferentiation made with regards to CGT on UK legal tender coinage.
Irrespective of any mint marks or the rarity of coin, provided it is classed as legal tender in the UK then it will be exempt from CGT and any sovereign minted after 1837 falls into this category.

OK, you may well be correct about this. I might be getting the VAT exemptions mixed up with the CGT exemptions.

sabretoothtigger

Just found a guy on youtube who makes kilo bars of copper, tin, zinc, lead and even aluminium

Really got to wonder about that but its more interesting then normal savings I guess

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZCmtQIdLbk&feature=relmfu


This guy has collected 20 sweet jars of copper coins which he says is worth 3 times face value. Thats a fair amount of effort for about 1k of copper apparently.
It will take extreme dire straits to turn copper into a monetary metal and so elevate its value maybe 10x like you'd really need to make this kind of thing worthwhile


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHCDTZ0DlJU&feature=related

shaun_from_Africa

A few weeks ago I had to clear out an old workshop at the place I work, and there was a fair amount of metal there (mainly aluminium sheets and bars, but also a few bronze rods).
I loaded the whole lot into the back of a pickup and took it to a local scrap metal recyclers expecting to get £40 or £50 for it and I was astounded to get £297.

It's no wonder that there are so many metal thefts now being reported around the UK.