Council Tax Bailiff Charges

techno_saver

Have been trawling through the posts to qualify the information.
Could anyone throw any help on this topic.
A few weeks ago was visited by a bailiff pursuing Council Tax. Spoke to him outside, not very pleasant, threatened to take the car, blocked me in for an hour, eventually left, I intended to pay a few days later.
Went to the Council to pay, because I didn't want to deal with him, the Council could not make their figures tally with his, told not to pay and they would send out a correct bill. Received an adjusted bill.
Was visited again by a different bailiff, this time I didn't go outside, instead I made the payment online to the Council, full amount including his fees. Made the payment while he stayed parked outside, I made no contact with him. Phoned his mobile number and told him payment made, including his fees. He told me to come outside as there was a policeman waiting, I don't know why but he had called a policeman to 'avoid breach of peace'
The bailiff verified the payment and said there would be extra fees of 120 pounds, two hours waiting time, I asked the policeman if he could do that, he said yes, he could charge whatever was deemed reasonable for waiting time, because I was so upset by the police presence I did pay. Is he allowed to do this.
Thanks.

Tixy

Unlikely.
What was he waiting for? Did he levy your vehicle when he visited the first time? if there was a levy they can charge much more than if not.

Some info here - http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=02_bailiffs_and_council_tax#chapter12
and here http://www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/counciltax.htm

If there was no levy I would think these costs were almost certainly illegal. If there was a levy I'm not sure, but hopefully one of the 2 places above can help.

RAS

Did he levy on your car?

techno_saver

Thank you for your reply,
There was no levy. He quoted the fee as waiting time.
I think that he was probably annoyed that I had paid the Council.
I did speak to Citizens Advice, they said that I should make a complaint to the Police as the Officer should not have made comment on the charges as being reasonable, also there has to be a real threat of 'breach of peace', otherwise the presence of the Police could be deemed as undue, and wasting Police time.
I spoke to the Council Tax Department and the lady said they are told to inform people that there may be extra fees incurred with the bailiff. When the bailiff phoned the Council for verification of the payment, the man he spoke to told him the payment, including bailiff fees, had been paid in full and he could go ahead and add any fees he deemed necessary, he replayed that message in front of the Policeman.
I think I will have to make a written complaint to the Bailiffs.

RAS

I think you need a bit more than that. One of halowitch's letters coming up Hold on.

RAS

Send this to the Bailiff company. (nicked fron hallowitch). What we want to do is to establish now what charges they have added.

This send it on-line to them either by e-mail or their contact page


Name
Address
Ref: Account No’s: 123456/78900
Liverpool council Ref No: 435672
Date
Dear Sir,
With reference to the above accounts, please provide me with a breakdown of all fees charged
This includes:
a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
b - The reason for the fee.
c - The name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
d - The name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.
e - The date of the Certification.
The National Standards for Enforcement Agents state that if a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided.
Please provide the information requested within 7 days
Yours faithfully
Ripped off customer"

techno_saver

Thank you.
Will submit that to the bailiffs' office.
The more I think about it, how strange that the police were involved, it was an opportunist visit, he made no attempt to remove the car, what trouble would he be anticipating.

DVardysShadow

techno_saver wrote: »

... Was visited again by a different bailiff, this time I didn't go outside, instead I made the payment online to the Council, full amount including his fees. Made the payment while he stayed parked outside, I made no contact with him. Phoned his mobile number and told him payment made, including his fees. He told me to come outside as there was a policeman waiting, I don't know why but he had called a policeman to 'avoid breach of peace'
The bailiff verified the payment and said there would be extra fees of 120 pounds, two hours waiting time, I asked the policeman if he could do that, he said yes, he could charge whatever was deemed reasonable for waiting time, because I was so upset by the police presence I did pay. Is he allowed to do this.
Thanks.

Never ask the police what the law is. The truth of the matter is that they are more ignorant of the wider law than the majority of people. They are particularly ignorant of the law to do with bailiffs and debt.

And in this kind of situation, the police should not get involved beyond preventing a breach of the peace. They should not venture opinions.

techno_saver

Hi.
I am a little annoyed at the police comments, if I had not seen a police car it would have appeared as if they were a team, it really was like daylight robbery in the presence of a policeman!
I do now think the fees are not legal.
I have now received a partial breakdown of fees, the second visit where the bailiff blocked my car, only incurred a visit fee, that looks as though there was no levy on the car. The bailiff on that visit threatened to remove the vehicle with several dummy calls to colleagues. With no levy on the car was it reasonable to block my car and attempt to grab the keys?
The fees charged on the last visit, the waiting fees, what would he be waiting for, if it was to levy the vehicle, would that require a police presence, I thought they could not levy and remove on the same day. I believe he said that if I did not pay his fees, he would clamp my car, I have since found this to be wrong as the Council Tax was paid and of course he would have to pursue his fees through the courts. It would have been interesting to know, had he clamped the car, would the police even be aware of the law.

gilligansyle

In these cases the police are there to prevent a 'breach of the peace' , so to stop the bailiff forcing entry, or you attacking the bailiff etc. I doubt the policeman new much about the law, but it does seem an odd sort of charge especially if there was no levy. However, if there was no levy, why block the car? Surely it didn't take 2 hours to make the online payment. Had he nothing better to do with his time?

dancingfairy

You might want to PM Hallowitch as this sounds very fishy to me. I feel an official complaint to the baiiffs coming up as well as to the police for misinformation and the council due to the conduct of people acting on their behalf, oh and perhaps copy your local councilor in on the letter to the council as well.
You need Hallowitch to give you the legal stuff though and point out exactly what laws/regulations they have broken so they take it seriously.
In the meantime wait and see what the bailiffs respond with.
df