Council Tax Bailiff Charges

timbstoke

Definitely fight it - the law on what council tax bailiffs can charge is VERY clear, and what they're charging you is absolutely not allowed. From the sounds of it, in your case he's entitled to charge £24.50 for his first visit and £18 for his second visit. The ONLY other charge he can even try is "For one attendance with a vehicle with a view to recover goods after the levy has been made under this heading" which can be "reasonable costs", but since he didn't get a levy, he can't charge this. "Waiting Time" is a joke - you never asked him to come, let alone wait!

Stuff the bailiff company - get to your local court and ask for the paperwork to file a FORM 4 COMPLAINT. Read this - http://www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/bailifffeecomplaints_comp.htm - it sounds like you want to complain about both excessive fees and his aggressive, rude and threatening behaviour in blocking in your vehicle when he had no levy. Complaints to his boss may result in a refund - complaints to the court will almost certainly do that, as well as potentially costing him his certificate, which means he no longer gets to work as a bailiff. That's the kind of thing that focuses the mind quite wonderfully.

techno_saver

Hi.
Thank you all for your help.
I will be officially complaining.
The point I am unsure of is the levy. Would it always incur a charge? Should I request a copy?
Thanks.

RobertoMoir

techno_saver wrote: »

Hi.
Thank you all for your help.
I will be officially complaining.
The point I am unsure of is the levy. Would it always incur a charge? Should I request a copy?
Thanks.

Yes. A levy means the seizure of goods against a debt, and always includes a fee. It's an important part of any distress process and if done wrongly by the bailiff it can can cause them a lot of problems.

Yes. Yes you should. You should ask for a copy because without that they can only charge for a maximum of two visits with intention to levy distress where no levy was made (sorry for the clumsy phrasing, but that's the correct name for the visits they make without doing a levy that they can charge for and its as well to know that if they try BSing you)

techno_saver

Hi.
Thank you for the reply.
I called the bailiff office today and it was confirmed that there was no levy, I said that the 'waiting' fee was not allowed, they replied it was allowable with no levy in place. I offered them a chance to refund the 120 pounds before I began official complaints, they said complain.
Another thing really bugging me is the fact that the bailiff used the police, it insinuates that I would cause a breach of the peace, I was actually hiding in the house, surely he didn't need my presence outside to levy on the car if he wanted to.
I am beginning to feel that this group of people can make up their own rules.
Thanks.

RobertoMoir

techno_saver wrote: »

Hi.
Thank you for the reply.
I called the bailiff office today and it was confirmed that there was no levy, I said that the 'waiting' fee was not allowed, they replied it was allowable with no levy in place. I offered them a chance to refund the 120 pounds before I began official complaints, they said complain.
Another thing really bugging me is the fact that the bailiff used the police, it insinuates that I would cause a breach of the peace, I was actually hiding in the house, surely he didn't need my presence outside to levy on the car if he wanted to.
I am beginning to feel that this group of people can make up their own rules.
Thanks.

Two things here

-- the Police thing: The police can only attend to prevent a breach of the peace from either side, but it is a common bailiff tactic to ask them to attend to prevent a breach of the peace on any slightly ropey call in the knowledge that their presence might intimidate someone who doesn't realise that.

You have a valid complaint about them interfering, perhaps, but not about the fact that they attended at all, imho. Don't take it personally, make it all business... you'll get further that way.

-- rules

Yes, they do make up their own rules. This is a combination of bad training and the fact that 95% of the people they 'chase' don't realise their own rights and the bailiffs can usually get away with it.

techno_saver

Hi.
Thanks.
Yes I know I am taking the police visit personally.
As a former bailiff yourself do you think they will wriggle out of the fees. Also am considering making a complaint to the court, the bailiff used the fact he could detain my car unless the fees were paid, but wouldn't he have to go through the courts procedure like anyone else if he claimed someone owed him money. Is that misrepresenting his powers. The first bailiff that blocked the car in and stood outside the car for over an hour, would that not be considered intimidating, I think I was very constrained, didn't use bad language, he did grab the keys from the car and I grabbed them back from him. it was that experience that stopped me going outside for the next visit.
Thanks.

RobertoMoir

techno_saver wrote: »

Hi.
Thanks.
Yes I know I am taking the police visit personally.

That's understandable but try hard to make it 'just business' and remain realistic about what you reasonably can and cannot complain about. Or perhaps I should say what you will likely get good results from complaining about.

As a former bailiff yourself do you think they will wriggle out of the fees.

I certainly think they'll try. I haven't been a bailiff for a _very_ long time now, so don't take what I say as a gospel rendition of current bailiff practices.

Also am considering making a complaint to the court, the bailiff used the fact he could detain my car unless the fees were paid, but wouldn't he have to go through the courts procedure like anyone else if he claimed someone owed him money. Is that misrepresenting his powers.

Well yes and no. A bailiff certainly could behave in that manner, I think, but not in the precise circumstances you describe.

Once bailiffs are instructed to recover council tax you've already been to court. And "lost" too. The council are in possession of a court order - a 'Liability Order' that allows them to instruct bailiffs to recover their debt and for the bailiffs to charge their (legal) fees for the recovery of the debt.

The question then becomes what fees have been legally charged. You should complain to the court the bailiff was certificated in about their 'waiting time' fee, as they can't charge anything vaguely resembling that without a levy.

The first bailiff that blocked the car in and stood outside the car for over an hour, would that not be considered intimidating, I think I was very constrained, didn't use bad language, he did grab the keys from the car and I grabbed them back from him. it was that experience that stopped me going outside for the next visit.
Thanks.

I'd certainly say that was intimidating, and incredibly dumb behaviour on his part. The first bailiff should have levied on that car, which would have allowed them to charge you more fees, and would have possibly 'legitimised' the further fees ("waiting time" as a fee is a grey area, to my best recollection). They had no right to take the keys without a levy.

In fact I wonder why he didn't levy. This is breathtaking incompetence on their part which will only help you complain about their fees. If I was in the first bailiff's position I would have levied on that car so fast that you'd still be dizzy from the sonic boom that came from my pen nib writing so fast, unless there was a reason I could not.

techno_saver

Thanks for your reply.
I know, I thought that about the levy, he had already posted the note through the door with the second visit fee on though, I don't think they can levy alongside can they? It would also make sense that the second bailiff had thought that he could remove the car, hence the police support.
On a personal note, did you have many happy moments as a bailiff, I just can't imagine that many people being pleased to see you.
Thanks again, your help is much appreciated.

RobertoMoir

techno_saver wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.
I know, I thought that about the levy, he had already posted the note through the door with the second visit fee on though, I don't think they can levy alongside can they? It would also make sense that the second bailiff had thought that he could remove the car, hence the police support.

No they can't levy and charge the second attendance letter fee, as I said earlier the attendance letters are actually a notice of visits with intention to levy distress where no levy was made. It's worth remembering that title to throw at them because it shows that you're getting knowledgeable advice and it makes the point that you know they can't levy at the same time as that visit and hence can't charge the levy fees or any subsequent fees that depend on the levy (such as waiting time, to pick a totally random example ) at the same time as they charge for that letter.

On a personal note, did you have many happy moments as a bailiff, I just can't imagine that many people being pleased to see you.

More than you might think, actually. For a start the job was the only one in my local jobcentre at that time and given that I was out of work but had bills to pay it was a case of become a bailiff or have them on my doorstep.

I didn't enjoy visiting people who were destitute and unable to pay but I actually got some satisfaction out of visiting people and businesses who were perfectly able to pay but just liked to screw the system - those people who push the cost of everything up for us.

I'm much happier now I'm doing something else though.

RAS

Techno

is that car on hire purchase?