Help re costs & necessity of electrical works

roger56

""I asked whether that would be a problem for me because if I put a new shower in I understand that I must notify the Council about this if it's not being done by a Part P person but he said I wouldn't because I would get a PIR by a Part P person at the end. I'm not sure as I think because it's something being newly added - and in a bathroom - I am bound to notify it if he isn't going to. Extremely confused now! I don't want to get in trouble with the Council."

If the Part P qualified person is a member of a "competent person" scheme
then he can self certify without council notification.

Otherwise, the council notification route must be taken. The works are major as they involve changes to the consumer unit and new circuits in a "special location" ie the shower.

As I said early, read Part P sections 1.18 to 1.29 - this explains the 3 options you have and it's quite clear. If you have problems downloading again, PM me and I'll email you a copy of Part P but this link should work:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professionals/en/4000000001253.html

Also, what did you electrician mean by a PIR, I've not come across such an abbreviation for a certificate?

nichere

roger56 pir stands for a periodic inspection report what use this is is beyond me for the above works as far as the part p thing is concerned how do you differentiate between a compedant person i could be compedent at plumbing but does not mean that i am a plumber just because i can do a bit of plumbing? if you know what i am getting at here.
also have a look at the following link as it is about the regulations and may be of some help
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/8.1.1.htm
hope this may help

roger56

thanks (I was stuck on Passive Infra Red!!)
I don't believe that is totally appropriate in this case.
http://www.niceic.org.uk/consumers/pir.html

OK for the existing bits if un-touched, but for new work I don't think so.

Hopefully someone will come along and get us clear on this bit.

nichere

a full testing and inspection certificate will be needed if new circuits are being installed within the property.
my worry is is that this contractor is charging £1900 not buying any materials getting his so called electrician to issue a periodic inspection report when new circuits are being added and also not even a mention if the existing tails are big enough as i think they have now changed the size required for these but not positive about that one (dont keep upto date with domestic regs)
but it is these kind of people that give tradesman a bad name and part p was bought in to get rid of this so called cowboy brigade but infact all it is is a money spinner for the niceic(political then sorry)
the link i gave is very useful if you take a look

robby-01

A periodic inspection report(pir) cannot be used in this case to satisfy the needs of building control.
Building control will require a copy of the appropriate wiring certificate which in this case will be a wiring installation certificate not a minor works certificate.These certificates can only be issued by the person or firm that is responsible for the installation work.
If someone else is employed by your builder to check his work that person will be inspecting the installation and not actually installing anything and so will only be able to issue a pir.
If you do the work yourself and get building control to check it you will need to provide the correct certificates to prove the job is ok.
The point that seems to be being missed is that an electrical installation certificate for a job is as much a part of the job as the job itself.
You wouldnt ask someone to fit you a shower and let them leave the cover off would you.
Why not? Easy because leaving the cover off would make it unsafe.You can see that so its a no brainer.
What about the wiring to the shower would you accept it if the earth connection was unsafe?
Of course not .How would you know it was unsafe you cant tell by looking at it.
When you test a job you prove that the bits you cant see are safe .
happy new year

nichere

the point i am trying to make is that i would not trust this bloke as he is charging £1900 for labour doing the electrics himself and getting his mate to issue a pir sounds dodgy to me that is if his mate does even issue any kind of t & i certificate i think we are getting away from the issue we were asked if we thought the work being ddone was worth £1900 just for labour?
myself i dont personally if the floor needed ply on it i would try and do it myself.
why not get the cables there yourself and leave them to an electrician(part p) registered to connect and test ive you leave them exposed so he can see them theres the inspection don4e and by testing the installation he will know if there is anythink wrong with the way you have pulled the cables in ie:damaqged them.
all we are trying to do is answer the question about cost and how much he has been quoted

travel_freak

Thanks everyone.

I must admit I thought he was sounding a bit cagey on the phone when I asked about Part P. He just said don't worry you'll get a PIR certificate at the end but when I said I thought if these were new and major works (esp the shower) they needed to be Part P certified he was hedging around saying he couldn't provide a "full installation certificate" and that it was not usual to get both an installation cert and a PIR in any event. Sometimes you get a vibe don't you that someone isn't quite being 100% upfront and I got that with him over the phone today - though he did seem to know what he was doing at the flat.

Also I think he knows that I might be persuaded to just agree quickly because he knows I'd like the work done quickly and he has said he can do it next week. But to be honest I'd rather lose the week and find someone who will to the work safely and comply with the law. After all I guess it will be me who gets fined by Building Regs if I can't produce the right certificates for the work I've had carried out.

I agree with Robbo's post it seems to me that for this new work an installation certificate would be needed and thereafter I would like to still have a PIR for my own peace of mind because that should(!) just prove that the new stuff and the existing stuff is safe and working as it should.

There's no way I'd trust myself to do any of the cabling as I'm scared stiff about of and have a very healthy respect for electrics - I can wire a plug but wouldn't risk anything else but maybe as you say I can start removing the tiling where necesary and buying in the bits and anything else I can physically do myself to save work for the builder/contractor to bring the costs down.

A little while ago someone on here kindly recommended a "Local Authority Building Control" website which takes you straight to a list of "Part P competent persons" and I spoke to a really nice guy this afternoon from that list who was really understanding and has agreed to come round early on Tuesday to have a look at things and give an estimate for what needs to be done. Fingers firmly crossed he will be able to help and because he is both Part P and a "competent person" he should be able to sign off the work he does personally.

I can't help but agree that it raises doubts when you have one person to do the work and another to sign it off as you do begin to wonder what "arrangements" these two people might have with one another. If it were anything else less serious than electrics I might be prepared to take a chance but with gas and electrics I just wouldn't.

Anyway huge thanks to everyone and a Happy New Year.

I'll post back on Tuesday after the Part P person has been - hopefully to share some good news with you all!

Best wishes.