Due in court Thursday - fare evasion TFL

preciousillusions

Hi, just in need of some last minute advice and hopefully some reassurance on this as am really, really worried.

Last year, November time I was stopped travelling on the London underground using a child ticket and not an adult ticket. I was read my rights and told I'd be sent a fine. At the time of the 'offence' I was in a state of severe diabetic hypoglycemia, and I told the TFL officer of this at the time. I also asked him if I could go and obtain a sugary drink and come back to answer questions but he wouldn't allow me to. I was confused and did not know why I had got that ticket, presumed I must have pressed the wrong button or something, I still really don't know and the journey and experience is very hazy. I only just recall talking to the officer because I was really scared and intimidated and I guess it shocked me a little more lucid. I did sign something but had no clue what it was really. Just needed to get out of there and get some sugar. After I got away I pretty much fainted outside with a blood glucose reading of 1.9.

Subsequently I am now at the stage where I have pleaded not guilty because even though I did pay for the incorrect fair (difference is like 3 quid or something ridiculous), It was not with intent. Hypoglycemia is regarded as a state of temporary insanity by law and I did not know what the hell I was doing, that was clear.

The witness statement from the officer that has been sent to me is largely incorrect for a few reasons. He does not even mention me saying I had low blood sugars at the time which I repeatedly did. He says that I told him I couldn't afford the adult fare which is incorrect. He also does not mention the fact that at first I tried to get away with it by pretending I was under 15 as was really frightened and did not know what to do. Something about borrowing 'his' (i.e. a male friend, of which I had none with me) Oyster card is also inserted into the middle of the statement which makes no sense, AND at one point the witness even refers to me as 'HE' - utterly insane. Surely with that accepting the rest of it is incorrect too like I've stated is believable?

Anyway, I have this court hearing this Thursday and I am so worried. I am a vulnerable person with mental health issues and an eating disorder which is what impacted my diabetic control in the first place, all of which I have explained through letters to the court. I said that I understood of course that keeping myself well enough to conduct myself within the law is of course my responsibility. However when it comes to diabetes and an eating disorder, decisions regarding taking care of yourself are complicated and sometimes feel beyond your control.

At the end of the day I did not intend to avoid paying the correct fair. It wasn't something I set out to do. I was ill and not in my right mind. I wish this was me making an excuse but it's not. It's the first time I have ever gotten into trouble with the law. I am in treatment for my ED & diabetes, too, if that makes any difference.

I have spoken to the CAB and have obtained a letter from my diabetic nurse explaining hypoglycemia and so supporting my claim. If required I can show a record of my blood glucose reading for that day and time when it was 1.9.

I am just worried it's all going to go wrong. Reading through the magistrates court website i see they say that you should get witnesses to attend but there's no way that is possible. My nurses and specialists cannot travel up to London to give evidence in such a stupid case. Is the letter really not going to stand up?

Basically, can I expect that they will see this in my favour or are they going to be completely awful like I am scared of? The lady at the CAB said she can't possibly see how they can convict me but she does not know. I did explain in my last letter describing the whole situation (which imo was a really good letter and very concise, I hoped so much that would be the end of it) that this whole thing is causing me a lot of distress and asked if possible to make an agreement out of court so I wouldn't have to attend but they just sent me this further date. I haven't been sleeping at all and the thought of standing up and tlaking with all eyes on me makes me feel sick to my stomach. I also cannot afford to pay a fine, really can't, travelling up to London again this Thursday is going to cost me like £28 as it is .

Sorry, rambling here and this is getting really long. But has anyone been in a similar situation at all or does anyone know what I can expect on Thursday? If you don't have any helpful advice I really can't bear to hear judgemental stuff, so If you feel that way please refrain from replying, thank you.

x

Livingthedream

If you haven't done this already, repost on the CAG Forum;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?161-Public-transport-%28Trains-tubes-and-buses%29

The people on there are well versed in helping people with such problems and won't be judgemental.

Another bit of advice, send this member Stigy a PM he's very good in such matters and will help the best he can.

Stigy

Hi,

I can't see how he'd realistically have been able to report you for an alleged offence if you were as ill on the day as you say you were. Of course, I wasn't there, so can't really judge anybody. If it was exactly as you described, then you have a good defence in my opinion. The fact that the Inspector didn't write down about you lying about your age is a good thing, trust me! Lying about your age when quizzed only makes you look more guilty.

I think you need to get out of the mindset that this is a stupid, petty case, as fare evasion is a factor in why fares are so expensive, and loses companies millions of pounds each year. Did the inspector ask you when you realised that the ticket was a child ticket? The reason I ask, is that if you said you realised as soon as you had bought it, yet still use it to travel, that alone would make an intent charge easier to prove.

Not wanting to influence you too much here, but were you ever advised legally (by CAB?) to plead guilty with mitigating circumstances? I'm assuming the charge is that of Section 5.3(a) Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (In layman's terms, intent to avoid payment of the correct rail fare). If it's the lesser offence of Byelaw 18.1, no intent to avoid payment is required (they may have gone with this one if you didn't admit to your intentions under caution, and is why I asked about pleading guilty with mitigation). What I will say though, is that it's very risky ground on TfL's part if your story is accurate, and your illness does affect you as you say it does. The letters from proffesionals should help your case.

preciousillusions

No the CAB didn't advise me to do that. To be honest I only recently went to see them after having entered into a not guilty plea after the first letter as I have been putting off dealing with this. Stupid I know .

I didn't realise that I'd got the wrong ticket until I was stopped. Then I presumed I must have pressed the wrong button and tried to get out of it by lying that I was under 15 which I know doesn't sound good. The charge definitely mentions fare evasion with intent. And like I said I signed something but had no idea what it was and just wanted to get away at that point and treat the hypo. He also presented me with a card to read with the 'it may harm your defence if you do not mention...' speech on it. Not that I could even read the thing. I think he may have even assumed I was drunk, the letter I have from my diabetic nurse does say that hypoglycemia can make a person seem drunk.

I will post on the other board like you advised too, thank you.

Stigy

preciousillusions wrote: »

No the CAB didn't advise me to do that. To be honest I only recently went to see them after having entered into a not guilty plea after the first letter as I have been putting off dealing with this. Stupid I know .

I didn't realise that I'd got the wrong ticket until I was stopped. Then I presumed I must have pressed the wrong button and tried to get out of it by lying that I was under 15 which I know doesn't sound good. The charge definitely mentions fare evasion with intent. And like I said I signed something but had no idea what it was and just wanted to get away at that point and treat the hypo. He also presented me with a card to read with the 'it may harm your defence if you do not mention...' speech on it. Not that I could even read the thing. I think he may have even assumed I was drunk, the letter I have from my diabetic nurse does say that hypoglycemia can make a person seem drunk.

I will post on the other board like you advised too, thank you.

Was it obvious that on the day you were ill? If not, did you tell the Inspector? I take it you didn't admit you intended to avoid paying the full fare then?

preciousillusions

I told him I was yes. I was also clearly disorientated and very wobbly. I even asked him if I could go and get a sugary drink and come back to answer questions (he could've come with me) but he said it wouldn't take long. Then when I went he seemed concerned but I just wanted to get away. He does not mention one thing about this in his statement.

I didn't admit it no but I was completely confused and I DID sign something .

erdd2

Take all information you have regards your "illness" (too tired to spell sorry)and definetly the reading you refer to. Letters from peeps involved in your treatment of "illness" and if you have/can get any regards the impact this is having on you.

There are no guarantees what the outcome will be until it is pronounced and there is no room for emotion in Court.

Remain as factual and concise as you can and good luck as I appreciate how difficult this will be for you. Let us know how you get on.

preciousillusions

Thank you erdd2, I will do.

Stigy

preciousillusions wrote: »

I told him I was yes. I was also clearly disorientated and very wobbly. I even asked him if I could go and get a sugary drink and come back to answer questions (he could've come with me) but he said it wouldn't take long. Then when I went he seemed concerned but I just wanted to get away. He does not mention one thing about this in his statement.

I didn't admit it no but I was completely confused and I DID sign something .

Did you read the notes before you signed them? It's important that you did, because if for whatever reason you didn't, he could have written anything and you basically signed it as a true and accurate account. I would certainly take advice from a legal expert regarding this, as I think there's a defence in there due to your condition at the time of the alleged offence. As you're due in court very soon, I would imagine any legal representation is sorted out by now, and you have all your notes and letters available.

Good Luck!

VfM4meplse

Don't expect a fair process where a genuine mistake is made.

I used a zone 4 national rail service about 2 years ago as the Central Line had delays, thinking my day z1-4 card would cover it. I had previously had a yearly z1-4 season ticket and that had always worked in the past when I changed my journey to work round delays, including this route! Unfortunately, I received a fixed notice penalty (£20) for my trouble. At the time, Stratford (E15) station - busy at the best of times - was being refurbished, which meant that large areas of the platforms were restricted, and the open sections were 4-fold deep with passengers, obstructing the "clearly displayed" penalty warnings.

I went back at a less busy time to inspect the aforementioned signs, they noted the need to pay the appropriate fare but not that TfL was not integrated with National Rail. National Rail were minting fines from unsuspecting passengers such as myself that evening, and I expect on many others too. The appeals authority did not agree with me that National Rail had not been sufficiently clear in stating that it's service was not integrated with TfL, given that I had used the route previoulsy with a season ticket. Paying the fare at the other end was not an option.

Stigy

VfM4meplse wrote: »

Don't expect a fair process where a genuine mistake is made.

I used a zone 4 national rail service about 2 years ago as the Central Line had delays, thinking my day z1-4 card would cover it. I had previously had a yearly z1-4 season ticket and that had always worked in the past when I changed my journey to work round delays, including this route! Unfortunately, I received a fixed notice penalty (£20) for my trouble. At the time, Stratford (E15) station - busy at the best of times - was being refurbished, which meant that large areas of the platforms were restricted, and the open sections were 4-fold deep with passengers, obstructing the "clearly displayed" penalty warnings.

I went back at a less busy time to inspect the aforementioned signs, they noted the need to pay the appropriate fare but not that TfL was not integrated with National Rail. National Rail were minting fines from unsuspecting passengers such as myself that evening, and I expect on many others too. The appeals authority did not agree with me that National Rail had not been sufficiently clear in stating that it's service was not integrated with TfL, given that I had used the route previoulsy with a season ticket. Paying the fare at the other end was not an option.

Normally, in the OP's case, it's quite clear cut, as you can't get a child rate ticket accidentally. However, with the possible issues surrounding this case particularly, there is a possible defence. I'm not sure how one acts whilst having a hypo, although I suspect it's like being drunk? Could they mistakenly purchase a child ticket? Possibly, if they just mash the buttons on the screen....

Your case was slightly different in that you were issued with a Penalty Fare, and unless all the TOCs speak to each other and allow travel on their services with off-route tickets, you become liable I'm afraid (even during times of disruption)! Bear in mind also that the Penalty Fare is a civil remedy to keep the matter from going to court. If the matter does go to could it becomes a criminal matter and the idea is that every case is looked at on its merits and the Magistrates/district judge act impartially and fairly. Unfortunately in your case, mistake or not, you are liable to know what you can and cant do with your ticket, and the Strict Liability of the Byelaw (18 in most cases) backs this up.