Is there a "maximum" class size in primary school?

Spendless

pleasedelete wrote: »

There should be 2 teachers for the whole time. Nursery nurses don't count.

However if the admission number is 30 then the school may fall under the excepted pupil legislation for 1 year. This usually means that due to some exception in the admissions (usually an error sometimes an appeal) that 34 children have been admitted. The school can exceed 30 for just 1 year but must have it back to 30 by next september.

If the admission limit is over 30 but the school is not oversubscribed (say a. 45 admission limit but just 32 applied) then the school must make provision to have the children in classes of 30 or less and no exceptions apply. So a school could have a limit of 45. 30 could apply and they could plan one class. In the summer holidays 2 more children
could apply and they would then need to have 2 teachers for that group of children. As said before a class is a group of children not a room and so a group of 32 in one room could be 2 classes with 2 teachers.

How do they do that if 4 don't move of their own accord? (Just out of interest). When I applied for my now 11yo DS's reception place, there was no 1st, 2nd 3rd preference, but you could apply for 1 faith and 1 non-faith school. I did and ended up with a place at both. Several children didn't get in to the faith school and went to appeal where it was established that the school hadn't stuck to it's own admission criteria and if they had then 4 of the children appealing would have been in. The school was told to admit these children and do as you have stated; employ another teacher until the numbers fell to 30 or below. They had done that by the time the kids were going into yr 3.

Also is there a maximum number for Secondary school per class?

pleasedelete

How do they do that in theory or practice?

In theory they either employ an additional teacher. Or they adjust each class. This might mean that year 2 and 3 are combined (as the infant class doesn't apply in a mixed y2/y3 unless the y2 are the majority of the class). It might mean mixed age teaching in nursery and reception or reception and y1. The pupil funding formula traditionally had infant class size weighting built in and so schools were historically funded to enable this (this is locally determined by LAs but within national guidance and requirements ).

In practice some just break the law but now may get named and shamed. Others electronically register the children (so not necessarily the register read out in class) in classes of no more than 30. The data is electronically uplifted for the headcount and it looks as if they are compliant. They are usually only picked up if there is a parental complaint or if the school has a detailed audit (very unusual) or if an LA adviser counts the children as part of a lesson observation and asks questions. It would show the total number in a year on various data returns but doesn't show how they are organized into classes.

Sometimes a school will return eyfsp or ks1 statutory assessments showing 32 children which may result in a question about how those children are being taught.

pleasedelete

No maximum for secondary schools.

Again a school or LA may have limits based on space size/health and safety but these are local.

apples1

So max is either 35 (or no max) at ks2 but either covers my Q. Thank you.

maman

pleasedelete wrote: »

No maximum for secondary schools.

Again a school or LA may have limits based on space size/health and safety but these are local.

The staff pupil ratio for secondary schools is better on average because allowances are made for e.g. technology, practical subjects, offering a broad and balanced curriculum etc etc So secondary pupils will be in different size classes for different subjects.

Janepig

Legislation must be slightly different in Wales then because DS is in a class of 34 with one teacher. Afaik, in the early years department there needs to be one member of staff to 8 children. Because there's a legal requirement on LEA's in Wales to provide welsh-medium education for any parent who wants that for their child(ren) then that's how they can go over the 30 limit (which DD/DS's school regularly does). All the classes have one teacher, in early years they have numerous teaching assistants, then in years 1-6 they have one teacher and one teaching assistant, although DD's class have an extra assistant who works with one of the children who is deaf.

Jxx

Spendless

Janepig wrote: »

Legislation must be slightly different in Wales then because DS is in a class of 34 with one teacher. Afaik, in the early years department there needs to be one member of staff to 8 children. Because there's a legal requirement on LEA's in Wales to provide welsh-medium education for any parent who wants that for their child(ren) then that's how they can go over the 30 limit (which DD/DS's school regularly does). All the classes have one teacher, in early years they have numerous teaching assistants, then in years 1-6 they have one teacher and one teaching assistant, although DD's class have an extra assistant who works with one of the children who is deaf.

Jxx

Jxx

You do it differently (or at least at your school) cos my DD is a few weeks older than yours but in the same school year, and I remember yours going to the attached school nursery free all day the year before reception. I remember envying you very much for that, when I was running up my kids school 3 times a day, with DD only 2.5 hours in the nursery.

Janepig

Spendless wrote: »

You do it differently (or at least at your school) cos my DD is a few weeks older than yours but in the same school year, and I remember yours going to the attached school nursery free all day the year before reception. I remember envying you very much for that, when I was running up my kids school 3 times a day, with DD only 2.5 hours in the nursery.

That's right! And I was grateful for that! One intake, the September after their 3rd birthday, full-time straight off! Although it's not the only school in town with a nursery unit as part of the school - when DD and DS were in day nursery before they went to school, some of their friends were leaving at 3 to go to school nurseries, others were having to wait another year as their chosen schools started with reception.

There were rumblings that the LEA wanted the school to adopt the part-time way of doing things for the nursery, and you'd have needed a Californian lawyer to work out the system they suggested - I would have had to leave my two in day nursery for another year because I just couldn't have managed it with my working hours.

Jx