Is there a "maximum" class size in primary school?

apples1

I know primary schools have a PAN (published admission number) which is the number of children they can take into reception I think but.....

later in school and by the time children are in junior (Key Stage 2) classes in years 3, 4, 5 and 6 is there a national max number of children per class or can a school have as many as they see fit as long as they don't go over the total number of children in the school as a whole?

browneyedbazzi

There's a class size limit of 30 that applies at least until they're 7 years old...I don't know if the limit stays the same/changes/disappears at that point!

Desperado99

It increases to 35 after 7 years old, and I think it stays at that level for the rest of key stage 2

pleasedelete

The infant class size legislation applies for a class where the majority of the children will be 5, 6 or 7 by the end of the academic year. This covers reception, year 1 and year 2.

This says that there must be one teacher for every 30 children. So if you have 31 you need 2 teachers (unless an permitted exceptions/ excepted child rule applies for the maximum of 1 academic year but this has a range of other requirements).

You could have 60 in one big classroom but you would need 2 teachers.

For year 3,4, 5 and 6 there is no maximum class size. An LA may have limits for a school based on physical space and health and safety requirements but there is no standard and it varies immensely from La to LA.

gratefulforhelp_2

38 in my DD's class, she's 8.

They must be able to count teaching assistants in the ratios.

pigpen

classroom assistants are taken into account, whether that is down to LA or not I don't know.. we had 32 in a year 2 class and had 2 assistants.

pleasedelete

gratefulforhelp wrote: »

38 in my DD's class, she's 8.

They must be able to count teaching assistants in the ratios.

No they can't count assistants. They can only count qualified teachers with qts but as she is 8 and so in year 3 or year 4 there is no maximum class size limit.

Desperado99

pleasedelete wrote: »

The infant class size legislation applies for a class where the majority of the children will be 5, 6 or 7 by the end of the academic year. This covers reception, year 1 and year 2.

This says that there must be one teacher for every 30 children. So if you have 31 you need 2 teachers (unless an excepted child rule applies for the maximum of 1 academic year but this has a range of other requirements).

You could have 60 in one big classroom but you would need 2 teachers.

For year 3,4, 5 and 6 there is no maximum class size. An LA may have limits for a school based on physical space and health and safety requirements but there is no standard and it varies immensely from La to LA.

Ah... so it's just 35 for my DD's school you learn something every day

pleasedelete

pigpen wrote: »

classroom assistants are taken into account, whether that is down to LA or not I don't know.. we had 32 in a year 2 class and had 2 assistants.

No they are not. The infant class size legislation requires qualified teachers. It is national legislation and not variable by LA. An infant class can exceed 30 for no more than one academic year if the child is deemed to be an excepted child (a permitted exception) . This would mean that their admission was in some way exceptional.

Each year figures are published for schools who break this legislation. I would suggest that many more are breaking it but complete the headcount returns in ways that avoid detection.

A class with 32 in year 2 would be very very very unusual (less so in reception) . I would be highly suspicious.

Js_Other_Half

DS is going into a reception class of 34 in September. I know there is at least one teacher and one nursery nurse at all times. ~i believe there may be other teachers who do a day here and there. TBH I won't find out how it works until he starts.

pleasedelete

Js_Other_Half wrote: »

DS is going into a reception class of 34 in September. I know there is at least one teacher and one nursery nurse at all times. ~i believe there may be other teachers who do a day here and there. TBH I won't find out how it works until he starts.

There should be 2 teachers for the whole time. Nursery nurses don't count.

However if the admission number is 30 then the school may fall under the excepted pupil legislation for 1 year (permitted exceptions). This usually means that due to some exception in the admissions (usually an error sometimes an appeal) that 34 children have been admitted. The school can exceed 30 for just 1 year but must have it back to 30 by next september. That doesn't mean they get rid of children! If no children leave they have to review their class structure and organisation.

If the admission limit is over 30 but the school is not oversubscribed (say a. 45 admission limit but just 32 applied) then the school must make provision to have the children in classes of 30 or less and no exceptions apply. So a school could have a limit of 45. 30 could apply and they could plan one class. In the summer holidays 2 more children
could apply and they would then need to have 2 teachers for that group of children. As said before a class is a group of children not a room and so a group of 32 in one room could be 2 classes with 2 teachers.