please help - private car park ticket (UKPC) issued in a free car park

[Deleted User]

Dear all

Please can someone provide some advice to me regarding a parking charge I received at a free cark park that was about to close and had over 80% free car spaces free at the time (Galleons reach Car park, East London)

My alleged offence was parking across two bays (this is correct) however I did this on purpose

1) my car is abnormally wide and just fits in a single bay so when I open the door its impossible for me not to hit a adjacent car
2) my car is very expensive and only recently I received a door ding in another car park (when I parked in a single box) which costs £500 to correct.
3) There was no parking restrictions upon entering the car park however there are some inside the car park
4) Signs are unclear on a sign it says “park in the marked bays” but does not necessitate parking in a single bay (please note the plural)– I think restrictions should have been much clearer as there is a conflicting messages on their warning signs with the a picture of a car in a single bay.

If I knew parking restrictions were in play (my fault I didn’t check properly once parked) I would have bought 2 tickets however this was a free cark park and was virtually empty. I know parking in two bays is not admirable thing to do but this free cark park was virtually empty (and so wasn’t inconveniencing anybody) and if it wasn’t for inconsiderate door dingers parking and damaging my car the other day I probably wouldn’t of parked in two bays.

Stupidly I appealed twice pointing out all these issues asking them to overturn this charge and I told them (empty threat) that I consulted a barrister said if you still did not agree I wanted the details of an independent adjudicator. They have more or less ignored what I have said and have rejected my appeal and have not passed me details of an independent adjudicator.

I have only recently come across websites mentioning that I should ignore their correspondence however I received a letter recently saying if I did not may the amount they will put the matter in the hands of our debt recovery agents. They have my home address (because I appealed) and mobile number and I have 14 days to pay the reduced fine of £50 (full amount is £90)

Can someone please offer me some advice? I am full law abiding citizen and if I am in the wrong I pay my parking tickets but in this case I just feel they have not considered my mitigating circumstances

Many thanks

scheming_gypsy

if it's the council, appeal it. If it's a private firm, file it in the bin

peter_the_piper

There is NO independent adjudicator although the BPA say they are trialling one. With a few exceptions a year the only reply you get from an appeal to a private parking company (PPC) is to reject. All appealing does is give them the knowledge that they have your address without having to pay £2.50 to the DVLA. You normally get about 5-6 begging and threatening letters(empty threats of course) and appealers get another 2-3 as they think you are wavering and might fold.

worried_jim

Ignore them from now on.

RENEGADE_2

All right, let's look at this closely. You've provided them with evidence that you were responsible for the alleged incident - something they would have had to do themselves by first requesting registered keeper details from DVLA and then harassing that person without knowing if he were the "offender". Fair enough.

You also appealed. This sends your antagonist a signal that you accede to his authority. Letters to private parking companies should NEVER contain the word "appeal" because the sender should be denying the debt. The demands by these companies are illegal because alleged violations of terms do not cause actual losses for them. They have no right to administer these £50 charges, or if they feel they have, let them take the matter to court. Let them pay for the hearing, whilst you take pleasure in knowing that whatever the outcome, there will be no criminal record for you as a law obiding citizen because this would have merely been a dispute. When the County Court rules that you are in the wrong and you are ordered to pay, then atleast you know you are responding to a legal requirement and not bowing to the pressure of rogue organisations.

Be sure of one thing - PPC court cases only take place on one day of every year, February 30th (or it could be 31st). In other words, NEVER!

This goes full circle. They are opportunists who know their actions are illegal, you cannot challenge them with the legal argument as for them to admit wrongdoings would mean they would shoot themsleves. Subsequently, this means there is no true appeals procedure! Therefore, appealing is a waste of time! It simply gives them the hint, "yes! we've got this one, he thinks we're genuine, let's continue this harassment campaign as he's obviously naïve and we'll have that holiday in Miami sooner than we think!".

Debt Collection Agency almost sounds respectable. Many people think it does and this is why they pay anything these vulchers demand. If it makes it easier for you, call them "bailiffs". The fact is simple, NOT EVEN BAILIFFS have powers unless they have been ordered by the court to carry out the action; you'll find though that bailiffs ONLY deal with courts. If I say you owe me money, I cannot go straight to bailiffs, as a matter of fact, I don't have anything to do with them. I prove my case in court first and only after it is clear that the money is not forthcoming will bailiffs be sent to recover the debt, I would never see or speak to them.

In the absence of this option and in light of the PPC not even considering court, they go for the next best option which is to involve crooked solicitors and so-called "debt collectors".

IGNORE everything from this point. OR write to them with a completely new character, "Right, I know your demand is unlawful, take me to court or stop writing to me, one more letter from anyone acting on your behalf will go straight to the authorities and be reported as harassment - Goodbye".

That should send a clear message!

vax2002

This Scam could only Work in England, where we buckle over the slightest threat.

[Deleted User]

Dear all, thank you ever so much for your advice and guidance(especially from Renegade). I will ignore any correspondance from them.

Did I understand correctly that if i am indeed taken to court there is a chance I will have to pay up? and by that moment I would have to cover all their expenses i.e costs payable is > ticket charge? I just feel if a reasonable independent person looked at this case they would understand.

UKPC website detail the following about taking people to court - I suppose what they saying is absolute nonsense?


Do we really take people to court and win?

Amateur lawyers posting on internet forums often advise people to ignore parking charges, claiming that they’re not enforceable by law. This is bad advice.

In fact we take people to court every month and in most cases the judge finds in our favour, on the basis that:

• the parking charge was issued correctly
• our signage was clear and properly displayed
• and the charge made was fair.

In this case you would be issued with a county court judgement (CCJ) detailing the amount you need to pay us. Taking into account the original charge plus interest, legal expenses and costs, this usually works out in excess of £300.
A CCJ could have a negative effect on your credit rating. Unless you pay it within one month and then pay an additional fee for the details to be removed from your records, the CCJ will remain on your credit file for six years.
Each month 10-20 people receive CCJs from the civil courts after trying to avoid paying one of our parking charges. Here are a few recent examples:

Coupon-mad

omer104 wrote: »

Each month 10-20 people receive CCJs from the civil courts after trying to avoid paying one of our parking charges. Here are a few recent examples:

I would stick my neck out and say that's a complete lie. :mad:

There have been NO postings on any of the main 3 forums (here, pepipoo and CAG) of any attempt at Court by UKPC in the last couple of YEARS, that I can recall.

Yes if you lost a small claim the cost could be £200-odd but the exceedingly rare cases that do get mentioned on forums all win where the case is properly defended. We regulars honestly cannot see you going anywhere near a Court but if in a very rare situation you did, we cannot see you losing.

I think I would remove the car park name from your first post though to avoid some chancer reading this forum, encouraging UKPC to pick on you...

HTH

SodG24

omer104 wrote: »

Dear all, thank you ever so much for your advice and guidance(especially from Renegade). I will ignore any correspondance from them.

Did I understand correctly that if i am indeed taken to court there is a chance I will have to pay up? and by that moment I would have to cover all their expenses i.e costs payable is > ticket charge? I just feel if a reasonable independent person looked at this case they would understand.

UKPC website detail the following about taking people to court - I suppose what they saying is absolute nonsense?


Do we really take people to court and win?

Amateur lawyers posting on internet forums often advise people to ignore parking charges, claiming that they’re not enforceable by law. This is bad advice.

In fact we take people to court every month and in most cases the judge finds in our favour, on the basis that:

• the parking charge was issued correctly
• our signage was clear and properly displayed
• and the charge made was fair.

In this case you would be issued with a county court judgement (CCJ) detailing the amount you need to pay us. Taking into account the original charge plus interest, legal expenses and costs, this usually works out in excess of £300.
A CCJ could have a negative effect on your credit rating. Unless you pay it within one month and then pay an additional fee for the details to be removed from your records, the CCJ will remain on your credit file for six years.
Each month 10-20 people receive CCJs from the civil courts after trying to avoid paying one of our parking charges. Here are a few recent examples:

Lets put it this way - they have already tried to scam so why would you believe their web site ? They are talking out their behind - if you really want to, and I suggest not but it's your choice, ask them to provide the case numbers of those that they won. I'd bet my mortgage that they are either set ups or the defendant didn't bother turning up.

My car has had two fake tickets from G24 and they still don't have the guts to take the driver to court - IGNORE from now on. That's because G24 know they are trying it in - for some reason they think I'm responsible as the registered keeper - kind of shows how thick they really are !!!!!! They haven't even bothered to PM me :rotfl:

They are nothing but scammers and in any other country would be shut down immediately.

esmerobbo

They take 10 to 20 a month to court yet still quote the Stephen Thomas case for reference. Why not quote one of their own?

robredz

They cannot quote their own, because the only real case won by any of them,and i put this advisedly is the Thomas case, it is not precedent, and was decided on it's particular facts, so is in no way authorative as a general case in an argument.