Speakers out of warranty

Daisies

We bought a set of speakers last year, including a subwoofer, for just over £1000. We bought them 13 months ago, but the subwoofer made a "phut" noise last night and then refused to work.

According to the paperwork we've got a 12 month warranty on the subwoofer and 24 months on the rest of the speakers, but I've been reading the consumer rights board which says things should be fit for purpose and last a reasonable time. To me, a set of speakers costing that much should last longer than 13 months!

I rang the shop we got them from, and they said it was probably the ??? and to bring it in and they'd have to charge us £175 to get the replacement ??? from the manufacturer. I'm a bit sceptical as they haven't even seen the speaker, and if it's a known fault/problem surely it should be repaired for free. I'm not expecting replacement or a refund, just a repair.

penrhyn

Is this an active or a passive subwoofer?

Care to tell us the system details?

Toxteth_OGrady

Sale of Goods Act Fact Sheet
Subject:
Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.

Relevant or Related Legislation:
Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.

Key Facts:
• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)
What is an inherent fault?


Do I only have rights for 30 [or some other number] days after purchase?


Are all goods supposed to last six (or five) years?


I know I can demand my money back within a "reasonable time" but how long is that?


After the "reasonable time has passed", what can I do?


Is it true that I have to complain to the manufacturer?


Do I have to produce a receipt?


Can I claim a refund on sale items?


Must I accept a credit note instead of a refund?


What can I do to claim damages or if the retailer will not honour my rights?


The retailer has claimed that a repair is "disproportionately costly" and insists I accept a replacement as an alternative. Must I accept this?


Neither repair nor replacement are possible. What can I do?


What will the "reversed burden of proof" mean for the consumer?


Where can I get further advice?

---

Q1. What is an inherent fault?
A fault present at the time of purchase. Examples are:
• an error in design so that a product is manufactured incorrectly
• an error in manufacturing where a faulty component was inserted.
The "fault" may not become apparent immediately but it was there at the time of sale and so the product was not of satisfactory standard.

Q2. Do I only have rights for 30 (or some other figure) days after purchase?
No. Depending on circumstances, you might be too late to have all your money back after this time, but the trader will still be liable for any breaches of contract, such as the goods being faulty. In fact, the trader could be liable to compensate you for up to six years.

Q3. Are all goods supposed to last six (or five) years?
No, that is the limit for bringing a court case in England and Wales (five years from the time of discovery in Scotland's case). An item only needs to last as long as it is reasonable to expect it to, taking into account all the factors. An oil filter would usually not last longer than a year but that would not mean it was unsatisfactory.

Q4. I know I can demand my money back within a "reasonable time" but how long is that?
The law does not specify a precise time as it will vary for most sales contracts as all the factors need to be taken into account to be fair to all sides. The pair of everyday shoes may only have a few days before the period expires but a pair of skis, purchased in a Summer Sale, may be allowed a longer period by a court.

Q5. After the "reasonable time" has passed, what can I do?
You may seek damages, which would be the amount of money necessary to have the goods repaired or replaced. Frequently retailers will themselves offer repair or replacement. But, if you are a consumer (not making the purchase in the course of a business) you have the statutory right to seek a repair or replacement as an alternative to seeking damages.

Q6. Is it true that I have to complain to the manufacturer?
No. You bought the goods from the trader, not the manufacturer, and the trader is liable for any breaches of contract (unless he was acting as the manufacturer's agent).

Q7. Do I have to produce a receipt to claim my rights?
No. In fact the trader doesn't have to give you a receipt in the first place so it would be unfair to say that you had to produce one. However, it might not be unreasonable for the shop to want some proof of purchase, so look to see if you have a cheque stub, bank statement, credit card slip etc., and this should be sufficient.

Q8. Can I claim a refund on sale items?
It depends on why you want to return them. The Sale of Goods Act still applies, but you are not entitled to a refund if you were told of the faults before purchase, or if the fault should have been obvious to you. Also, you are not entitled to a refund if you simply change your mind about liking the goods.

Q9. Must I accept a credit note instead of a refund?
It depends on why you want to return the goods.

• If you have changed your mind, then the shop doesn't have to do anything.

• But if the goods are faulty, incorrectly described or not fit for purpose, then you are entitled to your money back (provided you act quickly), and you certainly don't have to take a credit note

• If you do accept a credit note in these circumstances, watch out, as there may be restrictions on their use.

• If the shop displays a sign stating they only give credit notes instead of refunds, they might be breaking the law and you could report them to Consumer Direct on 08454 04 05 06. Consumers in Northern Ireland should contact Consumer Line on 0845 600 6262.

Q10. What can I do to claim damages or if the retailer will not honour my rights?
The Small Claims Court procedure provides the means to bring a claim, for up to £5000 (in England and Wales), at modest cost and without the need for a solicitor. Your local Citizens Advice Bureau can advise on how to make a claim.

Q11. The retailer has said that a repair is "disproportionately costly" and insists I accept a replacement as an alternative. Must I accept this?
Yes, and vice versa if you request a replacement and this is "disproportionately costly". However, remember any remedy has to be carried out "without significant inconvenience" and within a "reasonable time" for the consumer. Remember that you could also seek damages instead.

Q12. Neither repair nor replacement of the goods are possible. What can I do?
You may either pursue the old route of damages or a partial or full refund. Probably either would give you exactly the same amount of money. You would seek a full refund in scenarios such as those where you had enjoyed absolutely no benefit from the goods. If you had benefited from them then you would seek a partial refund as a fair remedy. This is exactly the reasoning that would be employed if you sought damages.

Q13. What does the "reversed burden of proof" mean for the consumer?
It means that for the first six months the consumer need not produce any evidence that a product was inherently faulty at the time of sale. If a consumer is seeking any other remedy the burden of proof remains with him/her.

In such a case, the retailer will either accept there was an inherent fault, and will offer a remedy, or he will dispute that it was inherently flawed. If the latter, when he inspects the product to analyse the cause, he may, for example, point out impact damage or stains that would be consistent with it having been mistreated in such a way as to bring about the fault.

This reversal of the usual burden of proof only applies when the consumer is seeking a repair or replacement. After the first six months the onus of proof is again on the consumer.

Fifer

Read Toxteth's post to familiarise yourself with the SOGA. It's reasonable to expect a £1000 set of speakers (Bose by any chance?) to last more than 13 months and I suspect a court would take a very sympathetic view. Inform the seller that under the Sale of Goods Act (as amended), the goods are not fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality and that you require a free repair, replacement or refund.

Daisies

Thanks for all of this. How long should I expect a set of speakers to last?

I'm afraid I don't know anything at all about speakers - my husband insisted on getting the things (I think they're totally pointless and just make it horrendously complicated to turn the TV on). To me, £1000+ is a heck of a lot of money to pay for something that has only lasted 13 months, but I have no idea what sort of life you would expect a subwoofer to have.

I have no idea what a passive or active subwoofer is. It seems to be called a Kef Kube 2 on the receipt.

somethingcorporate

Longer than 13 months. Although read the SOGA post above - it will be down to you to prove the fault was inherent.

Idiophreak

I've managed to change speakers outside of warranty before, but it takes some arguing - they'll just accuse you of blowing the things up and leave you to try and prove otherwise.

"reasonable" is very subjective. Personally, I'd expect a decent pair of speakers to last for 5 years, if you're paying > £200/pair - but a judge might not see if the same way.

InsideInsurance

I would expect active speakers to have a shorter lifespan than passive and I would guess the sub is active. That said, I'd expect it to be more than 13 months.

Outside of that.... invest in an all in one programmable remote.... had the same "problem" with having a TV, Sky box, Amplifier, Speakers etc but now you press "watch TV" and it turns on everything and sets it to the right channel etc. Hit "Watch DVD" and it turns off the sky box, turns on the DVD player, switches the channel on the amp and tv etc etc.

penrhyn

Are you sure its the (£400) subwoofer at fault and not the amplifier thats driving it?

Hammyman

Daisies wrote: »

Thanks for all of this. How long should I expect a set of speakers to last?

Well looked after, a decade or more. My surround sound speakers are 11 years old and cost £300. My mate uses some 1970's jobs.

I have no idea what a passive or active subwoofer is. It seems to be called a Kef Kube 2 on the receipt.

Kef is not a cheap make and should last years. Active means that the speaker has its own power and is just sent a signal from the surround sound amplifier. Does the sub have an on/off switch?

Enterprise_1701C

We have an active sub, just a Yamaha one, and so far it has lasted about 10 years.