Fair Trader did a poor job, what do I do?

jingles123

Hi, I wonder if anyone could advise me on how I can go about a little problem I have. I've just received a bill for an original estimate/quote for work that I had done recently. I had a new boiler installed, 2 trvs put in 2 rooms, and 3 other rads had their valves replaced. A 16 year old put on the 2 new trvs, and replaced all the valves. I was not happy with the end result. The valves don't look very good, some are damaged. I already got the main plumber to replace the knobs as they were mismatched, but after close inspection, there are markings to the valves... something you don't expect when you pay out good money to have them done professionally. For all I know they could have been fitted poorly on top of being damaged. He took a bit of paint of radiators and marked my walls doing this work, in one place after decorating, he's taken a bit out of my plasterboard. I have since noticed that someone has messed with my emersion tank thermostat, and chewed the face of that up so we can no longer change the temp on it. Not sure if it's been taken down to 60 deg C from 80 deg C. Our water doesn’t keep hot for long at the moment during winter. They didn't have to change this surely? The valve knobs have been chewed up a bit on the bathroom towel rail, something I didn’t ask for to have work done on. One of my rad bleeding vent bits has been rounded down even worse than it was, subsequently there is probably a bit of air in the system. I hear a bubble when things really start to heat up. The boiler is also tiny bit wonky. Overall I would not pay what they are invoicing me for. One other thing is that they stated that they would power flush the system. The system was only hot flushed for approx 2 hours with the pump that already exists and some cleaner that costs them about £10 max. This Ltd Company is under the local council fair trading scheme, so you woulda thought they'd have done a better job for the money. I don't really wish to have them back in again. What can I do to at least go about getting a reduction without having to confront them and have them in my house again? I only got a leaflet from them for a 1 year extra free warrantee on the boiler, not 3 extra years as quoted for. I could go on - they made a good mess of my floors and we had to Vax, but I appreciate they have to make some mess, still I wouldn't have minded if they had done a good job. The job wasn’t even signed off or inspected at the end by the guys that quoted and contracted. I hate complaining and wish that I didn’t have to.

Please help. On top of this I am ill at Xmas, and 8 months pregnant, so I could do without any hassle from anyone.

Thanks

Jingles

BobProperty

I'd have a word with the council Fair Trade scheme people, and see if there have been other problems. Does the Fair Trade scheme have some sort of dispute resolution mechanism? The contractor should be given the opportunity to rectify the errors, as, I believe, that is expected in law.

You said "One other thing is that they stated that they would power flush the system. The system was only hot flushed for approx 2 hours with the pump that already exists and some cleaner that costs them about £10 max."
I would agree that isn't a "power flush" but equally be careful about the claim "some cleaner that costs them about £10 max" as the good stuff for doing this is over £20 a go.

Generally, this highlights a problem with such schemes. Unless they are strictly policed and enforced they aren't much use. If this firm are complete cowboys I wouldn't be surprised if they still claim to be "Fair Trade" or whatever, even after they are "struck off" the list.

jingles123

BobProperty wrote:

I'd have a word with the council Fair Trade scheme people, and see if there have been other problems. Does the Fair Trade scheme have some sort of dispute resolution mechanism? The contractor should be given the opportunity to rectify the errors, as, I believe, that is expected in law.

You said "One other thing is that they stated that they would power flush the system. The system was only hot flushed for approx 2 hours with the pump that already exists and some cleaner that costs them about £10 max."
I would agree that isn't a "power flush" but equally be careful about the claim "some cleaner that costs them about £10 max" as the good stuff for doing this is over £20 a go.

Generally, this highlights a problem with such schemes. Unless they are strictly policed and enforced they aren't much use. If this firm are complete cowboys I wouldn't be surprised if they still claim to be "Fair Trade" or whatever, even after they are "struck off" the list.

They are listed as fair trade on the council's site - which should be up to date. They are quite a well known firm around here, and after having a few quotes done, they seemed reasonable.

I looked up the cleaner they used. Ferroquest. In the quantity they used, it's £10 for non traders to purchase. They have an account, so it's probably even cheaper for them. You're right, I probs won't mention it like that, but I'm trying to get my point across on here .

The thing is I don't really want to give them the chance to rectify bodges when I'm worried they will cause even more problems. Makes sense though doesn't it. I'd rather get onto the fair trading scheme folks first and explain this. I can't be dealing with anyone coming round doing more stuff, what with the baby coming etc.

Out of interest, the 16 year old although he looked 20, later on during the job he told me he how old he was and that he was paid £150 a week, and the main plumber was on £150 a day. If I would have known I could get an inexperienced teenager to do the valves for a few quid, I would have done. lol. It didn't take him long, yet I paid a lot for the job - enough to pay someone experienced and qualified to do it. I don't think inexperienced workers should be put on the job to train at our expense, and make a hash of things. The main guy didn't really need him around, and the next day when he came to change the valve knobs so they all matched, he told me he couldn't stand working with the lad. I thought he could have done it all in a day himself. They had a set of sparkly new modern looking normal lockshield/wheelhead angled valves in the van, but they decided to use NHS looking type ones ( a mixture of with different looking knobs) - obviously they were expecting a different size not to use the nice modern looking ones? The company should really have known which ones I needed, and ordered them specifically for the job like the other stuff that arrived here the week before they did the job. They also had to go out and get some inhibitor.

I suppose I should contact the council now, thanks for the advice.

plumb1_2

jingles123 wrote:

I looked up the cleaner they used. Ferroquest. In the quantity they used, it's £10 for non traders to purchase. They have an account, so it's probably even cheaper for them. You're right, I probs won't mention it like that, but I'm trying to get my point across on here

The price of the materials is irelivant, you acepted a quote for the job.Unless they specified what materials would be used.
If your quote stated a power flush, then they should have done this, get them back.

jingles123 wrote:

The thing is I don't really want to give them the chance to rectify bodges when I'm worried they will cause even more problems. Makes sense though doesn't it. I'd rather get onto the fair trading scheme folks first and explain this. I can't be dealing with anyone coming round doing more stuff, what with the baby coming etc.

You will have to allow them to sort out any errors they have made, if you dont imo you will lost any claim against them. Unless you want to go down the route of getting a independant servey( more cost).

jingles123 wrote:

Out of interest, the 16 year old although he looked 20, later on during the job he told me he how old he was and that he was paid £150 a week, and the main plumber was on £150 a day.

You had a quote for the job! their pay doesn,t come into it.
You realy dont think the 16yr old lad should be paid more do you? Would that make the bill justified?

jingles123 wrote:

If I would have known I could get an inexperienced teenager to do the valves for a few quid, I would have done. lol. It didn't take him long, yet I paid a lot for the job - enough to pay someone experienced and qualified to do it. I don't think inexperienced workers should be put on the job to train at our expense

You did pay for someone experianced, you had a plumber on site, but he should have checked the lads work.
How do you expect a trainee to gain experiance? Do you expect him for work for nothing until he is trained.

jingles123 wrote:

I suppose I should contact the council now, thanks for the advice.

First of all i dont intend to be harsh in my reply, just some facts!

You first point of call is the Owner/director of the company, ask him to come round and inspect the job, and see if he will sort your problems out( send a different engineer). If you dont want them back ask for a reduced bill.

If you are still not happy, them get onto the council dept that deals with Fair trade and ask them what can be done. Although you will have to wait until the new year.

jingles123

I don't expect to have an unqualified 16 year old do a job that was charged at experienced rates. I would have got my nephew to do it otherwise. lol.

BobProperty

jingles123 wrote:

I don't expect to have an unqualified 16 year old do a job that was charged at experienced rates. I would have got my nephew to do it otherwise. lol.

How do you know what the breakdown of the costs were? Please re-read what Plumb1 said. You have accepted a quote for this work. It apparently hasn't been done to an acceptable standard. The age and salary of the person doing the work is not relevant, the quality of the work is.
Did the company doing the work specify that they would only be sending round staff aged over 30 with a minimum of 7 years plumbing experience? (My guess is no)

jingles123

Yeah, I am not happy with the quality of the work - hence pointing out that they used a total berk to do the valves etc. They did specify that it would all be done professionally. For the money you expect no hash ups. I did ask for a breakdown, yes. Did you know that fair traders have to do that? The quote was accepted on that a powerflush was done, it was not. I also didn't ask for anything done outside of the quote like hash my tank therm up or my rad knobs or wreck my house. lol.

jingles123

One of my valves is now leaking - GREAT!

plumb1_2

Do they offer a call-out service? if so call them.

yummymummy79

Yes you had a quote, but that full price is dependant on them doing the job to the standard you expect (reasonable care and skill if you want to get legal about it).

I would get onto your local Consumer Direct (08454 04 05 06) to lodge a complaint to get passed on to the relevant council's Trading Standards, and also get some advice as to your best next steps.

Ideally (from a legal not necessarily a personal point of view) you should at least give them the option of coming back, but if you have lost faith in their work, then if you at least tell them this and what your intentions are (in writing) then you may well have covered yourself. One option would be to pay them an amount that you feel the job is worth taking into account any putting right you have had to do, as well as poss having to pay someone else to finish it off. If you enclose a cheque for this amount with a (Recorded Delivery) letter explaining the probs and why you don't want them to come back, then you should be OK to then look elsewhere for rectification. If they are not happy with this, they will have to take you to court for the rest of the money.

plumb1_2

yummymummy79 wrote:

If they are not happy with this, they will have to take you to court for the rest of the money.

And what would be the situation if the new boiler delevopes a fault?
Will they rush round to fix it?

As i said in my earlier post, i think you should at lease let them try a sort your problems out to your satifaction.
If this fails, then take further action