Security Alarms

peterhw

I've read some similar threads here and elsewhere but not quite found the answers I was looking for.

I recently popped into a supermarket for cartons of wine. I was in hurry, paid at the self check - which required the attendant to verify I was old enough to be purchasing alcohol - then left.

I didn't even wait for the receipt - why would I (may sound stupid) but I wouldn't normally want a receipt for a handful of consumable items that I'd never envisage returning to the store.

As I got toward the car park a 'poorly English speaking' guard announced that an was alarm sounding. I acknowledged him , told him it was nothing to do with me and carried on. Needless to say things then got a little heated as this guy prevented me from continuing (by holding the trolley - not me). [In practice I wish I'd removed my bag from the trolley and continued].

Having been accused of robbery - I eventually returned to the store and the attendant who had completed the self serve transaction immediately confirmed that I had paid and I left (nothing to be removed from the items).

I was under the impression that security staff had to have reasonable reason to think you were stealing before stopping you. In practice the only reason this guard had to stop me was due to either a faulty security system or the incorrect use of the system.

I looked at the wine-boxes when I got home and found just one of them had a label attached to it stating "Company Name, Security Protected , Please Remove before microwaving"!

No harm was done ... but I don't want this to happen again... and wondered what my rights are.

Can a guard prevent me from leaving?

I was actually in a precinct heading towards the supermarket car park - does the location have any bearing?

Whilst one might say I should keep a receipt - I have never been required to provide one before.
It appears - in this case - that I am guilty until I can prove otherwise and there is no obligation of the supermarket to substantiate any reasonable reason for thinking I have stolen items (I was wearing shirt , socks and sandals i.e. not hiding anything). Just 'lucky' that the goods I had purchased required the attendant - who was able to confirm that I had just purchased the goods.

gordikin

Popcorn anyone?

Gra76

peterhw wrote: »

I was under the impression that security staff had to have reasonable reason to think you were stealing before stopping you. In practice the only reason this guard had to stop me was due to either a faulty security system or the incorrect use of the system.

I'd say the alarm sounding, the tag on your box of wine having triggered it was more than sufficient reason for the guard to stop you. The second you step off the stores premises he was well within his rights to stop you.

If you'd had a receipt you could have shown him. He'd have let you on your way. You didn't have it though so as far as the security guard knows you could have stolen everything in the trolley.

Make sure the security tag is nullified next time and you won't have this embarassing situation again!

gordikin

The alarm sounded...and you didn't have a receipt?

Optimist

The moral of the story is to wait for the receipt.

The guard should have reasonable grounds to suspect and that in my opinion would be generally be interpreted by a court as actually seeing the item being selected, handled and removed from the store without paying.

However as does any person they have the power to make a arrest without warrant (citizens arrest) for a indictable offence if there is not a police officer about and they are trying to make off

This would be under Section 24 of Pace but a dangerous route to go down if they are not sure as one of those nasty lawyer types will have money out of them, or more likely their employers for false arrest.

dori2o

Has anyone else noticed alarms going of on them more frequently

Almost everyone I walk past now sets ff, and the ONLY common factor is my wallet, an me obviously.

Now the wallet is a leather one had it years and never had this problem before, and I'm pretty certain I haven't swallowed one of them tag things.

What has changed though is the content of my wallet. I now have a credit card that has the contactless payment chip in it.

Could it be this setting off the alarms?

peachyprice

peterhw wrote: »

I looked at the wine-boxes when I got home and found just one of them had a label attached to it stating "Company Name, Security Protected , Please Remove before microwaving"!

That label set the alarms off. The security guard was well within his rights to stop you when the alarms went off and ask to see your receipt, which you didn't have.

NiallB

dori2o wrote: »

Now the wallet is a leather one had it years and never had this problem before, and I'm pretty certain I haven't swallowed one of them tag things.

They tag you while you sleep. Is true! Is big conspiracy!

maninthestreet

Have you microwaved the wine yet?

shaun_from_Africa

What has changed though is the content of my wallet. I now have a credit card that has the contactless payment chip in it.

Could it be this setting off the alarms?

Possible but unlikely.
Some of the detectors work by transmitting a very low power radio signal which is picked up by the tag on the nicked item.
In turn, this tag emits another radio signal which is picked up by the receiver part of the system.
The frequency of the signal emitted by the tag is dependent on the size and specification of the tag, so the chip on your card would have to be almost identical to the tag.

peterhw

Gra76 wrote: »

I'd say the alarm sounding, the tag on your box of wine having triggered it was more than sufficient reason for the guard to stop you. The second you step off the stores premises he was well within his rights to stop you.

If you'd had a receipt you could have shown him. He'd have let you on your way. You didn't have it though so as far as the security guard knows you could have stolen everything in the trolley.

Make sure the security tag is nullified next time and you won't have this embarassing situation again!

Perhaps some folk are missing a little of what I was getting at.... I actually purchased 4 cartons of wine - only 1 was tagged. The tag was not a great big 'you can't miss' plastic device - it was a sticker on the opposite end to the bar code i.e. I probably never even looked at the other end of the box. Again having read the label when I got home "...... security protected please remove before microwaving....." I am not in the habit of microwaving wine cartons (or the contents).
I have purchased the same type of wine on several occasions (from this and other supermarkets) and never had a problem leaving the store. The point I make is that I had no reason to suspect that one or more of the cartons was security tagged.

I believe that the supermarket has a duty of care to its customers as well as its own profits. I have no problem with security devices if properly used. I have never been asked for a receipt before. The onus should be '... innocent until proven guilty...' I have never regarded a receipt as a document I should carry to prove I haven't stolen goods - more of - if I have faulty goods or request a refund then I would reasonably expect to provide a 'proof of purchase'.

Why use tags a tall it they are not obvious and consistent - just stop everybody and ask them to prove they purchased everything from the store!!!!