Orange Cooling Off Period

System

grumbler wrote: »

This is absolutely wrong.
The contract can be cancelled because it was sold over a phone.
The phone can be returned similarly.
The money has to be refunded.

Your own link says the retailer can refuse to cancel it!

Exceptions:

Fresh food and flowers (for obvious reasons of decay!), personalised goods, accommodation, transport, newspapers and magazines, sealed audio, video or computer software that has been opened or a service that has already started, can't be cancelled.

System

Guys_Dad wrote: »

No, you are wrong.

You have made the mistake of quoting DSR/SOGA and not the t&c of Orange which are more generous.

Don't believe me? Then look here

http://shop.orange.co.uk/mobile-phones/deliveryandreturns.

I was responding to

Am I not covered under the Distance Selling Regulations for this? I am within the 7 day period and I am really looking for some advice please.

The OP didn't ask in the original post about Orange's T&C.
Whether the retailer wants to go the extra mile is their choice

computersaysnoagain

You have right to change your mind. Ring them back and record the call and tell them you are doing so, you might get a different answer. If they still refuse ask for it to be escalated to complaints. Make sure you have a proof you called them so when ring and record get them to concur they are aware you called on this issue prior to prove date you first rang.

You could also ring the sales lines pretend to be interested in same deal and ask them with call recorded, dont tell them, and say what if I dont like the phone or change my mind within the first seven days, see what they quote and keep the recording.

Then you are armed for the executive office if it has to go that far.

grumbler

!!!!!! wrote: »

Your own link says the retailer can refuse to cancel it!

TBH, I have not even checked the link.
My opinion was based on the assumption that the OP has not used the phone for calls.
You are right that DSR don't apply otherwise, but Orange returns policy does apply.

gjchester

computersaysnoagain wrote: »

You could also ring the sales lines pretend to be interested in same deal and ask them with call recorded, dont tell them, and say what if I dont like the phone or change my mind within the first seven days, see what they quote and keep the recording.

Then you are armed for the executive office if it has to go that far.

You would also have any recording disallowed if it ever went to court unless you had said at the time it was being recorded.

gjchester

grumbler wrote: »

This is just a pathetic and ridiculous excuse. Calculators, cameras, TVs etc. come with software nowadays. This dosn't mean that I cannot return them after switching on.

Actually legally it does, If you order a camera form Argos they won't accept it back if it's used. If you order a games consose from Game then they specifically say it may be inspected but not used

"Hardware or peripherals may be opened for the purpose of inspection (but not used) and may be returned for refund or exchange within 28 days of the despatch date"

Just because a vendor exceeds the legal requirements doesn not mean it becomes a legal right

grumbler wrote: »

When they said 'software' they definitely meant the one that comes on, say, CD - to prevent it from being installed and then returned. As usually, our lawmakers just are not literate enough to write unambiguously what they actually mean.

No they mean software, And it's writien that way to make sure it's ambigious. It covers anything form a copy of Microsoft Office to a game to software in phones.

It's down to a court to clarify and decide what "software" is not the lawmakers.

Guys_Dad

!!!!!! wrote: »

I was responding to The OP didn't ask in the original post about Orange's T&C.
Whether the retailer wants to go the extra mile is their choice

You are partially correct if it applied to the DSR in isolation. However, what you wrote was

The contract can not be cancelled because the service started as soon as you agreed to it over the phone. They do not have to cease this if they do not wish to

You have the right to return the phone and either have it replaced or a refund. However as the phone is free that leaves you with a phone contract and no phone if you go for the refund

Had you prefixed it with "Under DSR....", then your post wouldn't have been misinterpreted as OP also wrote " I have called them up and they have said that I can return the phone for an exchange but am not able to cancel the contract I will have to take another phone with them."

Your reply was certainly not accurate in respect of what Orange are reported to have said to OP.

It is also not accurate inasmuch as the service does not commence for DSR purposes until 7 days have passed or customer makes use of the service.
From http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf

For services:
if you give your consumer the required written information on or
before the day the contract is concluded, their cancellation
rights will last for seven working days, counting from the day after
the contract was concluded, ....................

Different rules apply to services where the consumer agrees that the
service starts before the usual cancellation period expires. These
rules are as follows.
Where you have supplied the required durable information before
the service starts and the consumer agrees to the service
starting before the end of the usual cancellation period, their
cancellation rights will end when performance of the service starts

So, under DSR, for the airtime contract, if a buyer does not use the airtime service, then the airtime contract can be cancelled within a 7 day window. But that then leaves tha handset to be paid for if customer has rendered it 2nd hand by fiddling.

grumbler

gjchester wrote: »

No they mean software,

It's just your opinion against mine. The word 'definitely' that I used doesn't make my opinion the fact.

And it's writien that way to make sure it's ambigious.

IMO, law is not the place for ambiguity. All ambiguous laws result from incompetence and illiteracy of their authors.

It's down to a court to clarify and decide what "software" is not the lawmakers.

No. The less courts have to 'interpret' the better.
It is ridiculous to get courts involved for returning every small programmable appliance with some sort of processor.
Luckily common sense prevails probably everywhere except 'three'.

grumbler

I missed the first part of your post.

gjchester wrote: »

Actually legally it does, If you order a camera form Argos they won't accept it back if it's used. If you order a games consose from Game then they specifically say it may be inspected but not used

"Hardware or peripherals may be opened for the purpose of inspection (but not used) and may be returned for refund or exchange within 28 days of the despatch date"

Well, 'used' is yet another ambiguous term. If I switch a camera on and check the zoom, screen and menus without taking photos - am I using it?

However what does this have to do with the term 'software' in the DSR that we were talking about?

System

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Had you prefixed it with "Under DSR....", then your post wouldn't have been misinterpreted as OP also wrote " I have called them up and they have said that I can return the phone for an exchange but am not able to cancel the contract I will have to take another phone with them."

You missed out the actual question asked.by the OP which was what the response was aimed at. I answered the question not a general statement from Orange.

Your reply was certainly not accurate in respect of what Orange are reported to have said to OP.

I admit that I added an extra bit saying the OP could have a refund.

and the consumer agrees to the service
starting before the end of the usual cancellation period, their
cancellation rights will end when performance of the service starts

We are all guilty of possibly getting this wrong then because the above information was never in any of the posts by the OP. We do not know whether the OP agreed or not.