Solar Panel Guide Discussion

zeupater

K4blades wrote: »

I don't think BRE are saying the 50% figure is wrong as such, simply that at the time of development of SAP calcs, there was insufficient evidence of any other figure, so this figure for now has become accepted within industry.
As the number of installations grow, accurate data will help to improve SAP, but SAP and more so RDSAP, is not a great measure of PV benefits, not so much because of its "standard" approach, but because it does not really consider all electrical use in a dwelling, just heating / lighting / ventilation.

And one of my reasons for visiting these forums is to develop my own personal knowledge based on as many as possible real life situations, like I said, the bigger the data set, the better.

But the point of my post that you seem to have selective quoted / edited was that digitaltoast said "the best saving you can hope for is £70.00" Would you say this comment is true or false, based on your installation and evidence from others. You seem to question what is meant by "significantly better", what I would say is that IMO, £70.00 is not the most you will save.
Agree or not?

Hi

For an institute such as the BRE to 'guess' a figure which will could have a significant impact in their entire 'scientifically based' energy performance assessment procedure is rediculous, and therefore wrong. They cannot possibly hide behind an 'insufficient evidence' excuse for not correcting their system with any credability as it has been known to be both illogical and contradicted by actual user experiences for a considerable time .... I myself recognised the problem over 18 months ago just from a logical point of view after receiving quotes with SAP based electricity savings which did not take my existing low household energy consumption into consideration.

Regarding the claim of my 'selective quoted / edited' reply, this is wrong ... the quotation included the full text of your referenced post, the only omission being the embedded quotation, which is a standard feature of this forum software as implemented.

Anyway, regarding the question relating to my opinion on "the best saving you can hope for is £70.00", with qualification I would agree. The qualification would be that if the system was somewhere around a 3.3kWp system which would be typical of a rent-a-roof type operation, and the household was pretty typical in that it was empty during the day and that the displaced import electricity was available at a tier 2 rate of around 10p/kWh, and the household didn't significantly change energy usage patterns, then yes, £70 should be considered as typical and should be all that consumers should be led to 'hope for' by the industry. If circumstances are different for some, then by definition, the likely savings will not be typical .... as mentioned my savings are over £100/year, however, I'm at home right now, therefore using energy in an atypical way.

In closing, as a consumer, I would rather my initial contact with the industry would inform me that the likely energy saving would be £70, and therefore be happy with an actual saving of £100, than be led to believe that the saving would be £220, as per SAP, and be somewhat disappointed ..... to the industry it's all a matter of perception of their trustworthyness ... for me I'll continue to advise that anyone saving over £100/year on a 4kWp is doing really well.

HTH
Z

ps ... Whilst mentioning the collection of system performance data, you neglected to provide feedback on how your own pv system is performing ....

John_Pierpoint

Bingobongo wrote: »

Come on everyone it's a scam and you know it. It greenwash pure and simple and the only reason that this website has publicised it so heavily is that it falls into the remit of this site which is basically one of how consumers can save money.
But the inconvenient truth regarding this particular topic is that, as has been said before, it steals money from the poor to enrich mainly the middle classes.

Just like the European Union, which is currently asking for a pay rise:

The EU has been helping itself to the first few percent of VAT and then spends 40% of it by returning it to rural land owners, while protecting our markets from nasty cheap foreign food.

I cannot understand why this thread gets so heated over Robin Hood in reverse greenwash, when we have been subsidising Samantha's pony paddock to a hugely greater figure for the last dozen years; Surely her Dad's south facing garage roof needs a subsidy too.

Just look at the price "Farms" change hands for, when they are geographically near enough for someone with "City" generated income.

John

With apologies to Samanthas everywhere.

PS: You have just missed the National Audit Office rubbishing the £11bn up and coming "subsidy" for installing "smart meters". Listen again to "Your and Yours" on BBC Radio 4 - Methinks Gordon Brown signed up to the UK saving 20% in 10 years and an "impossible" amount in 50 years, so that is why we are being taxed by the power companies to pay for all these ideas.

One of these days, I just might be able to stop my DW boiling a pint of water to make one cup of instant coffee.

K4blades

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

ps ... Whilst mentioning the collection of system performance data, you neglected to provide feedback on how your own pv system is performing ....

Ask away, what would you like to know?

K4blades

It is repeatedly said on here about how unreliable PVs are in terms of total generation.


I hear today on the news that a nuclear power station, didn't catch which one, has had to be closed because some jellyfish have interfered with it.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

The point is, nothing is 100% perfect, but the more eggs in the basket, the less risk we have overall.

lanstrom

Are there any 'easy to understand' comparisons between investing £12k in either and ISA or Solar PV over the 25 years ?

Still can't make my mind up if PV really is an investment ;-)

Cardew

lanstrom wrote: »

Are there any 'easy to understand' comparisons between investing £12k in either and ISA or Solar PV over the 25 years ?

Still can't make my mind up if PV really is an investment ;-)

Not really!

The principle is easy to understand, but the solar payback depends on estimating too many variables i.e. inflation rates, interest rates, repairs, consumption in house, degredation of panels, roof repairs etc etc.

There can be little doubt -as long as the Government don't change/abolish FITs - that over 25 years it will be an excellent investment.

Personally I believe 12 years to 'break even' is a reasonable prediction.

bikeman

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels

Saving of £70 pa on electricity - wow!

Double your investment over 25 years! - I can double my money and more in 25 years just by putting it in a building society and have no risk.

Over 25 years I'd expect to average 5% pa - that's £42,000.

The returns are going to have to get a lot better to tempt me.

Buy an ISA - you'll get a lot better return than you will from solar panels. After 25 years you'll still have your capital rather than a worthless piece of obsolete and probably non functioning technology on your roof.

RenovationMan

bikeman wrote: »

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels

Saving of £70 pa on electricity - wow!

Double your investment over 25 years! - I can double my money and more in 25 years just by putting it in a building society at 1% pa and have no risk.

Over 25 years I'd expect to average 5% pa - that's £42,000.

The returns are going to have to get a lot better to tempt me.

Buy an ISA - you'll get a lot better return than you will from solar panels. After 25 years you'll still have your capital rather than a worthless piece of obsolete and probably non functioning technology on your roof.

Plus you can move the capital if a better investment opportunity comes along. Also an ISA doesn't prevent you from moving home!

zeupater

K4blades wrote: »

Ask away, what would you like to know?

Hi

I thought that that would be eminently apparent ..... with such a fervour for solar pv you obviously have a system, as do many others who post on this forum, therefore it would be logical to assume that having such strong views on the likely level of electricity savings would be based on your own experience with a system, so again, how is your system performing ? If it's performing well relative to others, can you share details of the measures which you are taking in order to maximise self consumption.

HTH
Z

zeupater

bikeman wrote: »

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels

Saving of £70 pa on electricity - wow!

Double your investment over 25 years! - I can double my money and more in 25 years just by putting it in a building society and have no risk.

Over 25 years I'd expect to average 5% pa - that's £42,000.

The returns are going to have to get a lot better to tempt me.

Buy an ISA - you'll get a lot better return than you will from solar panels. After 25 years you'll still have your capital rather than a worthless piece of obsolete and probably non functioning technology on your roof.

Hi

Looking at a compound result of £42000 over 25 years at 5% your initial sum is around £16k.

Let's assume that your initial £16k was used to purchase a pv system, the FiT system lasted for 25 years unchanged, inflation rates were not excessive, and any FiT income and energy savings were placed in a savings account and compounded at your 5% ..... then at the end of the 25 years you would both have a pv system on your roof & inflation adjusted cash assets worth somewhere well over over twice the inflation adjusted £42k ..... even allowing for inverter replacements and a reasonable amount of maintenance ....

Note the emphasis on 'inflation adjusted' ....

HTH
Z