Solar Panel Guide Discussion

[Deleted User]

Thanks Zeupater.

I have another person coming round tomorrow from a different company. What did you make of the figures regarding the possible returns? On the ones in the quote am I right in assuming the system would have paid for itself in about 8 - 9 years?

zeupater

Deleted_User wrote: »

Thanks Zeupater.

I have another person coming round tomorrow from a different company. What did you make of the figures regarding the possible returns? On the ones in the quote am I right in assuming the system would have paid for itself in about 8 - 9 years?

Hi

Figures look about right for SAP and all installers should provide SAP calculations to ensure that there's a level playing field in what they quote their customers. The only issue is that the SAP calculation assumes that 50% of generation will be used in the house so it's probably best to reduce the energy benfit downward from £178.76 to around £100 on a system of that size.

On payback, allow for an inverter failure at somewhere averaging around the 10 year mark which could cost a year's worth of FiT to rectify, but then again it might last longer ... The exact payback depends on many factors, weather & inflation included, but you're probably safe to assume around 10-11 years including an allowance for maintenance/failure, you'll not be dissappointed if it takes slightly less that way .

HTH
Z

zeupater

bjdarko wrote: »

What about First Solar? Is it possible to purchase its PV modules?

R!

Hi

All modules certified under the MCS scheme and eligible for FiT payments are detailed on the MCS website here .... http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/consumer ... as are all of the accredited installers.

Your installer must purchase and fit the system for you in order to qualify for the reduced 5% VAT rate and get the installation a certified MCS installation number, so the type/make of everything supplied is between the MCS certified list, yourself, the installer's willingness to supply your preference, and the installer's supply chain ....

HTH
Z

zeupater

bjdarko wrote: »

OK, sorry, but I don't understand this a certified MCS installation number? What is it?

Hi

When your installation is complete your supplier will register your system on the MCS database and will be supplied a certificate with your unique site number ... it is this certificate which will be needed to apply for payments of the FiT ... Only MCS accredited installers can register systems on the database ...

HTH
Z

zeupater

bjdarko wrote: »

@zeupater

Thanks, now it is clear! Thanks again! How do I know who the installer is accredited?

Hi

Check them out on this link .... http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/mcs-consumer/installer-search.php ... if you use the 'Map View" option you will be able to see your local installers ...

HTH
Z

lanstrom

So if the Fronius comes with a 20 year warranty does it matter if its installed in a loft ?

I have just had another company out to quote and they say the loss will be quite a bit less by mounting the inverter in the loft rather than next to the consumer unit. I told him I was worried about the heat but he wasn't so concerned and said I could have it installed in the garage if thats what I prefered.

Would you trust the warranty to cover you in the case of invertor failure if it had been installed in the loft ?

PS: For those looking for details of the Frontius 'special offer' warranty it can be found here ...
http://www.fronius.com/cps/rde/xchg/SID-858477E9-67203865/fronius_international/hs.xsl/83_16242_ENG_HTML.htm

Cardew

lanstrom wrote: »

So if the Fronius comes with a 20 year warranty does it matter if its installed in a loft ?

I have just had another company out to quote and they say the loss will be quite a bit less by mounting the inverter in the loft rather than next to the consumer unit. I told him I was worried about the heat but he wasn't so concerned and said I could have it installed in the garage if thats what I prefered.

Would you trust the warranty to cover you in the case of invertor failure if it had been installed in the loft ?

PS: For those looking for details of the Frontius 'special offer' warranty it can be found here ...
http://www.fronius.com/cps/rde/xchg/SID-858477E9-67203865/fronius_international/hs.xsl/83_16242_ENG_HTML.htm

I tend to be very sceptical about 20 year warranties.

Firstly will the firm be in business, with the same name, in 20 years?

Secondly we can take it as read that most of the installation firms will not be around in a few years as there will be little work for them.

If you suspect that a fault with your system is the inverter, you will need an authorised firm to check out your suspicion, remove the inverter and send it to Fronius, get a new one and fit it and check out the system.

Costs for that lot????

lanstrom

Cardew wrote: »

I tend to be very sceptical about 20 year warranties.

Firstly will the firm be in business, with the same name, in 20 years?

Secondly we can take it as read that most of the installation firms will not be around in a few years as there will be little work for them.

If you suspect that a fault with your system is the inverter, you will need an authorised firm to check out your suspicion, remove the inverter and send it to Fronius, get a new one and fit it and check out the system.

Costs for that lot????

Well I speak from experience when I say I know what you mean.

I had undertile heating in my bathroom which came with a lifetime guarantee. 3 years on it failed and only then did I realise that by the time I had paid a bathroom fitter/electrician to rip all the tiles up, replace the unit and fit new tiles it was completly worthless. He said I might as well just claim the whole lot on the house insurance and thats what I ended up doing

zeupater

lanstrom wrote: »

So if the Fronius comes with a 20 year warranty does it matter if its installed in a loft ?

I have just had another company out to quote and they say the loss will be quite a bit less by mounting the inverter in the loft rather than next to the consumer unit. I told him I was worried about the heat but he wasn't so concerned and said I could have it installed in the garage if thats what I prefered.

Would you trust the warranty to cover you in the case of invertor failure if it had been installed in the loft ?

PS: For those looking for details of the Frontius 'special offer' warranty it can be found here ...
http://www.fronius.com/cps/rde/xchg/SID-858477E9-67203865/fronius_international/hs.xsl/83_16242_ENG_HTML.htm

Hi

The FiT scheme is 25years and hopefully the system will have a service life longer than that, so what happens after year 20 ?

If the garage is integral and the cable run is straightforward you're probably only adding somewhere around 5m or so to the DC cable run and reducing the AC run by the same length. You can help compensate for the additional DC cable resistance loss by increasing the DC cable from 4mm to 6mm .....

Have a look at the SMA SunnyDesign software (http://www.sma.de/en/service/downloads.html) and model a couple of system with cable runs which match your DC run alternatives and see what the difference is as the software allows you to include cable losses in the generation prediction ... the SMA cable loss calculation will be applicable to any inverter make.

Also look up the temperature derating specs for whatever inverter you are being offered (if you can find them). Installers will tell you that inverters can easily withstand the temperatures in a loft, but they are much less likely to tell you that they are designed to derate their output (reduce their efficiency) in order to stay cool, SMA inverters start to derate at just over 40C and cut out at 60C, with the derating being a straight line process where at 60C (just before cutting out) they would only be operating at 60% of maximum performance. (http://files.sma.de/dl/7418/TempDerating-UEN103910.pdf)

Needless to say, my inverter is in the garage, although this past summer it would have made no difference whatsoever :D ....

HTH
Z

Kevinf

I've been working on a scheme for ages in Gloucestershire that is just ready to launch, funding solar panels on community buildings through a community share issue, similar to schemes in Lewes and Oxford. In our model a village hall with a 9.9 kWp system can get over £1000 a year as well as the free electricity. I can't see any reason why this model wouldn't work for house holders, although it works best when the system is close to 4 kWp so again the people who can afford the biggest houses benefit the most ;-). Put house holders and potential investors together (who could be friends and relatives) and they can set up a coop and work out the best deal to suit all parties. No more rip offs! If you want to explore this idea more then contact me, or come along to our meeting at City Works in Gloucester tomorrow (Weds) at 6pm.