Solar Panel Guide Discussion

Doc_N

Some very concerning posts above about the deletion of posts for no apparent reason. May we have an explanation, or at least some comment, from a Mod? It's bringing MSE into disrepute.

zeupater

keith_r59 wrote: »

I would be wary of using this as a benchmark for a single installation as by the original posters own admission this figure relates to large scale orders of 400+ properties.

Better to get five quotes from a mixture of companies (local and national) and then make your selection based on price, technical knowledge, references etc.

Hi

On a 400+ property contract the customer is being totally ripped off if they are paying £3/Wp .... I'd guess that this size contract would be local authority funded, so knowing the normal level of quality of their purchasing departments along with a general total disregard for professional accountability then it's no surprise ..... If it was in my local authority area I'd be on the phone to every councillor possible and the audit department straight away to ensure that there was a value for money and potential corruption investigation.

Individuals should be getting larger installations at around £3/Wp, on a 400+ property contract (800kWp+ ?) there's no reason at all for paying anything near £2.50/Wp, which seems to be typical for around 50kWp installs .....

HTH
Z

Gizmosmum_2

Most LA's that I know are installing pv are buying in their own materials and subcontracting installation for circa £1200/property. I don't know any that are tendering for the whole package.

Gizmosmum_2

MarcusH wrote: »

So, far I've had four companies quote on my roof - a simple trapezoidal area - but I'm surprised how all but one has made a real effort to measure the roof much at all. One quotes for additional panels if sufficient space is found to be available on installation.

Methods included:
1) Measuring the house wall length (two)
2) Measuring the roof pitch angle (only one)
3) Photographing the roof, ostensibly to count the tiles (but not measuring the tiles) (one)
4) Thumb suck, or "having a feel for it" (two)

I'm sure my own calculations are more accurate, by including measuring internally in the loft space.

It's all a bit complicated with different panel sizes and orientations (and gaps between panels), but I'd have thought it crucial to know how many panels can be fitted before deciding on whether it's worth it.

I was rather expecting real "surveyors" to turn up with theodolites and measure things up much more accurately. It all seems a bit haphazard. Is it just me?

Personally, I wouldn't buy off anyone who can't be bothered to measure the roof - it's pure laziness. If they can't be bothered to measure and produce a roof plan then what else can they not be bothered to do??

stevemcol

Sorry if this (or variations) has been asked lots of times before. My house is not south facing. It's rougly SW facing (229°T).
Should I still be considering PV panels? (approx 53.8°N, no shade, approx 25sqr m, between 30 & 40° pitch).

zeupater

stevemcol wrote: »

Sorry if this (or variations) has been asked lots of times before. My house is not south facing. It's rougly SW facing (229°T).
Should I still be considering PV panels? (approx 53.8°N, no shade, approx 25sqr m, between 30 & 40° pitch).

Hi

You'll find that the total generation will be reduced by somewhere around 7%, so not much ..... feed your details into the PVGIS estimation tool and check the difference between South & SouthWest .... http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php

You will need to allow a clear roof space of 300mm to 500mm all around the panels, so a 25sqm roof wouldn't take a 4kWp system, but somewhere between 2kWp and 3kWp would probably fit, depending on panel efficiency.

HTH
Z

swan22

digitaltoast wrote: »

Me too - so why has it vanished? I've PM'd a mod who can shed some light onto why an interesting and useful post with so many reccs has vanished.

Glad I copied that post :T. PM me if you need a reminder.

Elainemary

Couldn't agree more with the complaints re the removed posting. It really was first class and I can't understand why repeated requests for an explanation have gone unanswered. Come on Martin - or one of yor minions - give us the answer.
Alternatively - come back PendragonUK and keep up the useful posts - PLEASE.

digitaltoast

Elainemary wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with the complaints re the removed posting. It really was first class and I can't understand why repeated requests for an explanation have gone unanswered. Come on Martin - or one of yor minions - give us the answer.
Alternatively - come back PendragonUK and keep up the useful posts - PLEASE.

I got a reply to my PM:

The Forum Manager has deleted that post. I can only imagine it was deemed as advertising perhaps as Pendragon state they are in the business.
That's all I can say really as we're never actually party to the reasons why something has been deleted by the Forum Team.

Disappointing, to say the least. I wonder who nominates the "forum manager", who they answer to, and what particular guidelines they have to adhere to, and why notes aren't left as to reason for deletion. All the forums I've ever been involved with insist that any deletion is accompanied by a note explaining it. I'd truly like to see the guidelines which get a very useful and impartial post deleted by a member just because they're also from a company.

Freepost

I came across this, it may help, there is no mention of a company but lots of useful info;

If your expecting a fancy surveyor with lots of kit you might be disapointed, The majority of the survey can be done 'desk top' especially with the photos available on Google Earth these days. All we carry is a compass, a 10 metre tape and in the car we have a 'sun-eye' camera which is a nifty bit of kit that we only bother to get out if there might be a 'shading issue' on the roof. The Sun-eye calculates the effective shading and allows the design software to calculate the relative drop in panel effeciency as a result of any shading that might be on the roof.

If you're getting quotes you could look out for the following;

1. Before even allowing them to quote are they MCS accredited? - You WILL NOT be be paid the FIT payment if the company fitting the system AND the kit they use is not MCS accredited, this is an absolute condition of the micro-generation scheme.

2. Is the guy doing the survey a contractor? Sub-contractor or working for the company direct?

3. How many systems have they fitted and where can you go to see some up and running?

During the visit to your property the 'surveyor' should be checking:

1. External - Any possible shading (trees, chimney, adjacent buildings etc)

2. External - Age & condition of the roof (including if there is felt under your tiles), you want 25 years which is the panel life and FIT payment duration.

3. External Access - How are they lifting and positioning the panels

4. External Obstructions - Tile vents, flues, Soil Vent Pipes, Extractor fan Vents all have the prospect of getting in the way!

5. Orientation - (Hence the compass) A reasonable size roof plane (20m2 plus) facing due south gives best results we have fitted viable systems up to +/- 45 degrees from this. Anymore than this SERIOUSLY question the yield figures you are being quoted!

6. Internally - Position of the Consumer unit and the most viable route (and least damaging if supplier is any good) back to it from the panels.

7. Internally - In your loft space to see that the rafters are suitable for bracket fittings (and if they're a good company advising you if your roof should last the 25 years the panels and FIT payments last)

8. Ask how long they think the fitting will take, realistically on a domestic system of less than 4KW (over this the FIT tarrif payment per Watt drops) they should take no more than a week if installed on a single roof. We take 3 days for anything upto 20 panels.

9. Do you want a smart meter? - If you are likely to use more than 50% of the electric you generate then NO you don't you just want a cheap and cheerful generation meter, otherwise then yes you do. In any event you want telemetric (a sim card in the generation meter) monitoring that you can have on your home computer. This can be directly (cost say £5 a month in texts + one off software cost) or via a web portal (cost say £12 month including warning e-mails). The reason for this is if you don't generate you don't get paid your FIT and if your system stops working how do you know if it is not being monitored!

10. Ask what the panel and inverter make is and how they system is designed or selected to ensure best inverter match and size is chosen. The design ideally should have the inverter running about 115-120% at peak (July/August) and at 80-90% during the cold months. This is important for inverter life.

11. Ask about Waranty; panel warranties should be 25 Years with 5-10 years at a minimum of 90% of the stated output and the balance of the term at 80%, the inverter guarentee should be 5-7 years (hard to get longer).

12. Ask about inverter life; if you are borrowing money to fund your Solar Panels you need to factor in 2 (yes 2) replacements. Inverters are getting better by the month but even now 12 years is a fantastic life span even for the best makes. Incidentally this is why the design relationship between panel and inverter is crucial run them too 'hot' and it shortens their life run them too 'cold' and you lose output.

13. Ask about panel size v output, for instance we use different manufacturers that in the 999mm x 1600mm panel format produce panels with an outputs of 230, 235 and 330, the largest output is not neccessarily the best value - that depends on the system design!
FINALLY COST:


HOWEVER be aware that in July 2011 the Dept. of Energy and Climate Change published recomendations that the (inflation un-adjusted) FIT tariff should reduce from 43.3p to 39.6p (fall of 8.5%) for systems registered after 31st March 2012.

F.